quote:

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Originally posted by Planetary Eulogy:
A probability? Yes. A "fact?" No. There are too many questionable elements regarding both documentation and physical evidence of the death camp system for me to accept the received tradition as "fact." I have no doubt whatsoever that the National Socialist regime operated a system of labour and internment camps under absolutely horrendous conditions, in which hundreds of thousands or even millions perished, but whether there was a deliberate program of extermination is to my mind far less certain.

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So what exactly were Auschwitz, Belzec, Buchenwald, Dachau, Treblinka to name just a few of them? Auschwitz IS the terrible testimony to the Nazi legacy. The death camps existed. Fact.

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Originally posted by Planetary Eulogy
I suppose, if you're into moralism, that this sort of statement makes sense. Frankly, to me it depends entirely on how and why you pursue the course of genocide. If the end result is a better, healthier world where people live better, healthier lives, I have no objection, even if it requires certain, ah, demographic realignments.

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There's nothing moral about it. Every attempt at genocide in history has achieved nothing more than a huge vacuum within that particular country and huge social issues. Cambodia, Rwanda, Germany, Bosnia, Serbia all suffered as a result of this policy. There is nothing to be gained from this avenue of population control. History tells us it doesn't work so why revisit it?

And as to 'Demographic Realignments'...Please enlighten us on your intention behind this delightfully fluffy phrase.

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Originally posted by Knickerzohnonnof:
And as to 'Demographic Realignments'...Please enlighten us on your intention behind this delightfully fluffy phrase.

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I must admit I was intrigued as well by this phrase. Come on, develop on the subject, Pro. I have a feeling you will end up introducing us to the bell curve theory during the explanation to this one.

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and...

Kulio, you do realize that you would be in the front seat of the first short bus into the official ANUS.com human kiln o' eugenics, don't ya? Poor, poor simple boy. Forest for the trees.

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Originally posted by Knickerzohnonnof:
So what exactly were Auschwitz, Belzec, Buchenwald, Dachau, Treblinka to name just a few of them?

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Internment camps for sure, but death camps? That's less certain. The problem is that the physical facilities at the supposed death camps were all badly damaged by bombing and shell fire during the war, and the "gas chambers" are postwar "reconstructions" built by the Soviets. They may very well be accurate representations of what was actually there. Then again, they may not be. Whatever they are, they aren't original, so they aren't genuine "evidence" of atrocities. None of the camps liberated by the Western Allies operated gas chambers or any other extermination related facilities. This in and of itself is rather suspicious.

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There's nothing moral about it.

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Sure there isn't, that's of course why you cast your previous comments in wholly moral terms.

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Every attempt at genocide in history has achieved nothing more than a huge vacuum within that particular country and huge social issues.

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So Hellenism, the Indian resettlement, the Roman and Spanish conquests, the Stalinist and Maoist programs of forced modernization etc. were all massive failures? At least be honest, kid.

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Cambodia, Rwanda, Germany, Bosnia, Serbia all suffered as a result of this policy.

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The problems in Germany and the Balkans had nothing to do with genocide and everything to do with ruinous wars. In fact, the anti-Jewish policies in the Reich (forced labour and property confiscation) played an integral role in jumpstarting the German economy.

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[/qb]And as to 'Demographic Realignments'...Please enlighten us on your intention behind this delightfully fluffy phrase.[/QB]

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Eliminate a few billion useless Third Worlders and a few million over consuming First Worlders and the rest can live sensibly and happily.

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This ranks right up there with the stupidest things you have said. Way too simplistic, almost child like I would suggest. Only a simpleton would see it so black and white. 2/3rds of the world lives below the poverty line and a good billion of that have no income to speak of. But they are consuming almost nothing in terms of planet resoruces and their misfortune is largely because of Western Colonialism and slavery! If you look at the proposal to introduce a eugenics policy then shouldn't we be looking at the most wasteful in our society, and not those who live by sustainence, with little impact on the world around them? There's your 'Few Billion useless Third Worlders' fool. Living the very life that a certain Mr. Vikernes once trumpeted in his 'Civilisation' essay...Until he went mad and started harking on about Lord Of The Rings within the same text. You still do worship the ground he walks on I take it? Or is that another one of your miraculous U-turns?

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The two most significant threats to the health of the biosphere are First World overconsumption and Third World overpopulation, and any long-term solution to the earth's problems by necessity must address both. AIDS and famine are a good start (in addressing overpopulation), but mother nature might need a little help from us in the future. We shall see what we shall see.

Incidentally, child, the German "records" of the Holocaust were also "found" by the Soviets, which makes them as suspect as anything else to do with the NKVD.

Don't matter to me. I would not join your "ANUS" just because I'm against the US and UK war in Irak or the fact that I'm against the Israelian governments politics ( including their allieds) in the middle est. That's a totally different issue!

You can hide behind whatever you like, National-socialism will always be the same.
You want eugenics, borders between people, borders between individuals.

Once and for all, let me tell you I have friends here in my town who came here because of war. On married couple is from former yougoslavia, she was born in a
"muslim" family, he in "christian". They can not go back to their home contry because
some greedy National Militarian leaders have construated borders there. Here they can live together and raise their three children, TOGETHER as they wish to be. They don't care about "religion".

Another couple; he was born as a "jew", she is (was) from palestina. They've been together for 20 years. They are still together. Here they can live together. His parents is still in Israel, of course they are very upset and angry with their own government, but they have found a way to fight against their own governments politics. They don't care much for "religion".

I have friends from Latin america, they came here as political refugees. Had to run away from dictatorship.

As for the holocoust during WW II. It DID HAPPEN!! "Jews'" and other "undesirable" people DIED IN THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS. Don't try to change the "numbers" or question them. Don't try to change the history. Hitler and Stalin, at least they had one thing in common; GENOCIDE!

Nazism (=National socialism) is something I do NOT wish for. Belive it or not, there is just one human "race" on earth; HOMO SAPIENS. Where somebody was born, whatever skin colour, what culture, what language, skinny, fat or whatever.......etc. doesn't matter! We are all individuals.

Now I think I said what I wanted to say in this section. All the things I can say out of what I have experienced.

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Originally posted by Prozak:
Eliminate a few billion useless Third Worlders and a few million over consuming First Worlders and the rest can live sensibly and happily.

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Heh.

Heheheh.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

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Originally posted by Prozak:
Obviously the third world uses fewer resources per capita, but this is balanced by the fact that they have far more "capita" to worry about (80% of the planet's population). They are not living zero-impact lifestyles by any stretch of the imagination. Most are involved in inefficient, wasteful and highly destructive forms of agriculture. Most of the rest are engaged in other environmentally unfriendly activities (such as mining). Nor can you blame the inability of Africans and other Third Worlders to develop more efficient agricultural methods, better means of providing irrigation and potable water or sustainable population growth on "colonialism" or slavery.

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I must admit you're funny, son, thanks for the entertainment. But now let's talk serious. Before pointing your finger at the nowadays "owners" of the planetary environment, remember that your forefathers burned your own to the ground, in favour of expanding your cities in the last century. Plus, only a highly biased person can say the agriculture on Third-world countries is destructive. E.g., I live on the "green belt" of São Paulo state here, and I can assure we, for a long time, have been on the forefront of the most advanced technology on cultivation while preserving the ground. Study first, boy, then make your "judgments", please. Thanks.

Eh, you forgot to write about the "bell curve theory".

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You people wanted a debate, you got it.
Now you are looking so foolish and uneducated at your lame responses.

Pity is too good for you.

Kudo's to Planetary Eulogy for telling it like it is.

oh...oops. i'm not here. nevermind.

Yeah, our disagreeing with Eugenics is due to it being above our understanding and intelligence. Suuure. Has NOTHING to do with the fact that the majority of us have at least a spark of compassion for others and the Nihilist Numbnuts do not. Pretty simple even for yous to git.

Bah! No big deal, since i have done it myself.
But its amusing to see how far the "Almighty" has fallen.
So low in fact, he cannot even respond to the heckles of a certain 'Satan' calling him out to play (on another board).

But i'm sure his lame response would be something like "Why waste my time?"
Then why waste your time even registering.

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Originally posted by Planetary Eulogy:
...they just lack the wherewithal to develop there own (or to make efficient use of that which others have created).

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Originally posted by hexonxonx:
Hahahah!
No, I'm NOT calling YOU names. You call yourself names. I just poke some fun at them
The God thing was a joke, and you know it, but unfortunately I had no time for more games. If you noticed I didn't post here for quite some time too. Don't think of yourself as someone too special who I think about too much.
I can handle the truth. Pretty much so. But, there's no truth in your words, just empty zeal. You never proved otherwise. Now you joined the nazscarids, so that's your choice again, not mine. And you pretty much know my attitude to everything nazi or kommie, so don't expect no mercy.

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Originally posted by Planetary Eulogy:
Brazil is one of the leading practitioners of slash and burn agriculture. You're sitting in the middle of the most diverse terrestrial ecosystem on earth (the Amazon basin) and burning it down. So try not to talk out your ass so much, jr.

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Ah, the old art of accusation just for the sake of it...

Well, Senior, most of the corporations burning Amazonia down is from your very USA, who, btw, is very interested in this part of my country, for who know$ what, so I guess who is talking out the ass. Oh, but then this must be of minor importance to you. A person who states that Brasil is "one of the leading practitioners of slash and burn agriculture" surely isn't aware of this kind of information, nor is interested.

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Originally posted by prozak:
And let's be fair, using technology developed in the US, Europe and Japan is not the same as actually developing it yourself. Even the shambling apes in Africa have availed themselves of Western technology, they just lack the wherewithal to develop there own (or to make efficient use of that which others have created).

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Another proof of your un-knowledge. I can't speak for Africa, but Brasil is high on technical cooperation, not only but also, agriculture-wise, with several countries in Europe (Germany, Italy, Spain, v.g.) and Japan. Of course they can apply their own technology on it, but they also learn from our own experience of cultivating several species of fruits and vegetables that do not fit to our eco-system, adapting them to our climate and quality of the land (learn about grape cultivation in the almost equatorial northeast of Brasil for proof on that, v.g.). This surely doesn't fit your accusation of "slash and burn", that's why I reccomend again, study first then come back to me.

Kids. Bah.

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I've joined the Nazis?

Two more samples of your lunacy.

Oh, how you Jews always seem to start calling people "Nazi" or "Anti-Semite" when someone points out the facts of Israel and the Holocaust.
Oh, lets not forget that i am also a "Traitor" because i hate America so much.
I guess i hate Black people too, because i dont put up with theyre using the "Racist" Card on me.
"I'm Black, therefore you owe me something"
or...
"I'm a Jew, Pity me and my people"

Its all complete bullshit and a scam.

By the way, since you dont seem to know...
I am not a Nazi. I am a Socialist.

Hi "hex", was just thinking "loud".
How could I forget; Nazis (= National Socialists) work that way: Make people confused, try to "divide" us. They would sure like to see us argue with eachother.

"I am not a number, I am a free man!"

"HAHAHAHAHA!!!"

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Originally posted by LEGION:
"...you are number 6."

"I am not a number, I am a free man!"

"HAHAHAHAHA!!!"

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i would be lying if i said that hasnt been going through my mind everytime i see that board name..hahahaha...

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Originally posted by Delightful Little Capuchin Monkey:
Funny, I keep thinking his math's off. Subtract 4 and I think it'll fit nicely.

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LOL!

Seriously though kula, Why on earth are you standing up for a person who is an out and out racist? Neo-Prozak stands for things my late grandfather fought against in the last war. I may have been faster than most to castigate you, but I have to say I feel more and more vindicated with every post you make.

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