More:

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The human species may be seen as having evolved in the service of entropy, and it cannot be expected to outlast the dense accumulations of energy that have helped define its niche. Human beings like to believe they are in control of their destiny, but when the history of life on Earth is seen in perspective, the evolution of Homo sapiens is merely a transient episode that acts to redress the planet's energy balance.

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from: http://www.dieoff.org/

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an oil-based economy such as ours doesn't have to deplete its entire reserve of oil before it begins to collapse. A shortfall between demand and supply as little as 10-15 percent is enough to wholly shatter an oil-dependent economy and reduce its citizenry to poverty.

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from: http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

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"You have the option to drill additional holes in the label,
causing the record to rotate off the side of the turntable"

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Originally posted by infoterror:
A die-off is kind of a good thing... there's too many of us.

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In that, there will admittedly be a certain amount of satisfaction for the 'less compassionate' side of me if I live to see it. After all, I have to drive amongst these clueless, yellow ribbon-displaying, self-absorbed nincompoops each and every day.

Hey "infoterror": interesting blog-thing you have there. I noticed that the "friends" page was blank, though....

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"You have the option to drill additional holes in the label,
causing the record to rotate off the side of the turntable"

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Originally posted by Delightful Little Capuchin Monkey:
It's a "good thing" as long as you aren't one of the people who has to die, I assume.

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Doesn't jive with my philosophy. If I die, and the whole lives on, I'm pretty happy with that. After all, it's what will happen - if we are lucky - when I die, no matter when it comes.

Then again, I am Hindu, so slightly different perspective here.

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The downfall of this is, of course, obvious. Every man here has radioactive particles in his testicles thanks to nuclear power. I was a baby when the Chernobyl dust-cloud was floating around Europe. It's still dangerous, scary stuff, but do we really have a choice?

And even that is just for the major power sources. Then we have to factor in air and land travel, both of which are responsible for much of the oil-guzzling and resultant pollution. We need alternative sources there, or we're going to have to re-evaluate our attitude to automated travel.

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Originally posted by infoterror:
Or the obvious: we need FEWER people, of HIGHER quality, so we don't need so much central government and consumption to begin with.

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[and here we go again]
Sooooo Mr. Hindu, how do you propose this be done? Who decides which people are of 'lower quality' and will thus die?

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"You have the option to drill additional holes in the label,
causing the record to rotate off the side of the turntable"

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The plan takes two stages. First, its objectives; second, its methods. These are usually debated separately, for good reason, as any objective has multiple methods of achieving it.

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How about a straight answer.

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"You have the option to drill additional holes in the label,
causing the record to rotate off the side of the turntable"

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Originally posted by warcorpse:
I think its best to try to separate the person from the argument, go after it, not him. Shouting down opposition does not change the idea or the view.

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That would be appreciated.

The way I see things, if we don't force a die-off of our own, overpopulation will force a die off, after destroying much of the planet.

That's an end worth avoiding, no?

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Originally posted by infoterror:
The way I see things, if we don't force a die-off of our own, overpopulation will force a die off, after destroying much of the planet.

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I think mother earth would shake us off like a bad case of fleas... or she could just spawn another mass epidemic such as aids or sars.

A big, calamitous "die-off" and eugenics-related ideas are not, and never have been, the answer. Social darwinism is a joke, and not a particularly funny one. A die-off is to be avoided, not encouraged, and there is no reason that it has to happen at all.

Growing education and wealth along with industrialisation and liberalisation have been shown to have a correlation with lowering birth rates. What is needed is a multifaceted approach to the problems facing us, incorporating a massive re-evaluation of how we view our fellow human beings and our natural environment. The survival and wellbeing of both humanity and the planet is of more importance than fleeting material wealth and petty convenience, and it is time we began as a whole to realise this.

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Originally posted by warcorpse:
Not to derail, I can understand why you think low mpg vehicles owners are nincompoops, but why are people who support the troops nincompoops? Many of the people with the ribbon have a relative in the military.

I don't have a yellow ribbon, but I am a veteran. I drive a Dodge Ram 4x4 everyday. I love it. You go invent me an alternative.

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Yeah, well don't get me wrong, Corpse. I myself am a former truck-driving, card-carrying, assault rifle-owning NRA member. Both my Father & Stepfather were veterans. These days, I see many vehicles as pure status symbols, and the people driving them as wasteful, self-centered assholes who are also dangerously BAD drivers. (I drive 200-300 miles a day, mostly city driving, so I see plenty) So in other words, my comments are aimed at a specific type of person:

1. "Owns" a huge gas-guzzling 4X4 SUV which never hauls anything or finds its way off the pavement;

2. Sports about 8 different types of magnetic ribbons, (they all fit, because the Cadillac Escalade has 3400 Sq. feet of rear surface area) ...ribbons which strike me as more of a band-aid for their guilt than a heartfelt display of support. Hats off to the guy who invented those fucking ribbons, though. Must be a billionaire by now.

Of COURSE I support those brave & noble kids who are out there fighting. I just find myself believing less & less in our government/ President's motives and feel less & less empathetic toward certain members of this fucked up society.

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"You have the option to drill additional holes in the label,
causing the record to rotate off the side of the turntable"

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Originally posted by Lyckantropen:
The "solution" of a forced "die-off" is an extremely poor one at best.

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And if the option is death for all, including non-human lifeforms? You mean you'd rather preserve human life than save this planet's ecosystem from extinction?

A poor choice.

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Today, the U.S. has less than 5 percent of the world's population, yet it consumes more than 25 percent of global oil production-about 20 million barrels per day (mbd).

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"You have the option to drill additional holes in the label,
causing the record to rotate off the side of the turntable"

quote:

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And if the option is death for all, including non-human lifeforms? You mean you'd rather preserve human life than save this planet's ecosystem from extinction?

A poor choice.

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Originally posted by warcorpse:
Ha, no kidding. That whole sentence is flawed. There are billions of people who don't use oil at all. You can't throw the whole world population into that mix. Its like saying Americans make up less then 5 percent of the world's population yet Americans own 80% of the world's computers. Or Swedes make up .01% of the world's population yet they consume 99% of the global swedish meatball supply.

Now you have to decide which is more deceiving. The link I posted or the quote you keep hearing.

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Ok, then. Let's simplify this by disregarding the 'percentage of the world's population' part:

[The U.S.] consumes more than 25 percent of global oil production-about 20 million barrels per day.

I can't even vouch for the accuracy of this to begin with, however it certainly is easier to believe than the figure you provided, which says that some Singapore dude uses more than double the oil per day that a typical American does. What the fuck are these people commuting in? Tanks?

The bottom line is, we are burning through this shit as fast as we can, while doing very little in the way of developing a Plan B for when it begins to disappear.

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"You have the option to drill additional holes in the label,
causing the record to rotate off the side of the turntable"

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Professor, this is a beautiful idea. How about make up a bunch of pamphlets and drop them off at the headquarters of the Sudanese government. I'm sure they'd be interested...

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Originally posted by Lyckantropen:
as a species we need to rethink our way of life, in the context of the "big picture" of the planet's survival.

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Good idea, but it will be 100% ineffective unless you also radically limit population.

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Good idea, but it will be 100% ineffective unless you also radically limit population.

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Originally posted by Lyckantropen:
Don't patronise me, bucko. All I stated was that as a species we need to rethink our way of life, in the context of the "big picture" of the planet's survival. We put too much store in things which aren't real or important and too little in what is. That's it. I'm not proposing what to do, how to do it, or when, because I don't know. I am just stating what I see as the reality of the situation, and it would be nice if you could at least respect that.

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