quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
I think you need glasses.

---

If WC need glasses you are Stevie Wonder.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
THIS is what its about:

This list of nations represents literally millions of human beings all over the world who have been brutally murdered — directly by the United States military/government or by its obedient proxies. Huge though the list is, there is yet more to add. But it does at least contain most of the known campaigns of American state terrorism, genocide and subversion — all of which are in the historical record for the whole world to see. God only knows what evil the U.S. government and military have committed that remains hidden.

And as long as the United States remains a military power, the list of state terror victims will keep growing.

---

Please go and live in the Balkans. Then tell me those nice Balkan people are free from the 'hypocrisy' you describe. The Balkans has been the most disputed territory in Europe in the last Century - WWI was started because of an assassination within this territory! Added to this what about the ethnic cleansing within the Balkan region? What was Milosevic all about? Karadzic? Obviosuly far better leaders than bush or Blair...You filthy hypocryte!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
Chronology of American State Terrorism

Read the truth people.
Dont listen to the Propaganda spewed forth from Warcorpse.
After all...he is going to do the world a disfavour by voting for Bush again.

---

Read the page...usual propaganda. Some historical facts, but bloated with miles of anti american rhetoric. Can't be taken seriously.

Go to the land of the free...the Balkans. I'm sure your life will be short if you conduct yourself as you do here.

--------------------

I will NOT retract that which is the truth.
United States, Great Britain, Israel...ARE TERRORIST COUNTRIES.
I not only speak of the Colonial past, but of the here and NOW.

The ILLEGAL INVASION OF A SOVERIGN IRAQ is just one proof of this.
An Invasion that should NOT have happened.
You were warned by SMARTER Countries like Germany and France not to do it, but you
thumbed your nose at the MILLIONS of people around the world...and did it anyway.
Now you cry and whine when your Murdering Soldiers are all shot up.
Yet in the same breath, you call it "Collateral Damage" when an Iraqi Civilian
is needlessly killed.
You also call those that fight you, "Insurgents."
What a fucking joke!
They are fighting for theyre own Country against the TERRORISM of the INVADERS...and you
have the nerve to call THEM the Terrorists and Insurgents??
Propaganda Double-Speak...and YOU FALL FOR IT Knicker.

The List on that Website i provided shows exactly what TERRORIST activities your Country
and the United States / Israel have been engaged in...PRESENT TENSE!
Of course it is full of Anti American talk!
Why shouldnt it be? After all...YOU ARE THE TERRORISTS!!!

This is exactly what i knew would happen.
Once you see it all laid out in front of you...you STILL deny it!
This is why it is pointless for me to show you the truth of things...because you deny it every single time.
THEN....you will accuse me of being "Childish" and not engaging in "Proper Debate."
What a total bunch of shit!
When you are losing...you start with the accusations!
THAT is typical behaviour i expect from those who are blind.

You also do not know the first thing about the Balkans either.
They are not barbarians like you think.
They are, in fact, a LOT smarter than you are Knicker.

My own child will be a Croatian Citizen.
I am so proud of that fact.
THAT IS MY #1 REASON FOR GOING THERE!
And you BEST not say one ill word toward my Family and Child!
Not even I would do that to you or Warcorpse or anyone else.

The people there too know the truth about you Brits and Americans.
After all...it was YOUR TERRORIST BOMBS that fell on theyre heads!

Now, Knicker...Its time for you to go salute your flag.

The US and the UK terrorist states, no their not. Ok i dont like Bush or Blair but what has theyr administrations have anything to do with the rest of English or Americans?(there's good and bad everywhere), if i was American/English i wouldnt like my country to be called terrorist state either.
Benefit of the doubt: you're only talking about politicians? arent you?
The US and the UK have proved through history their capable of the best and of the not so good(it happens!).
If you start looking in history books no nation has a clean record... maybe Buthan, San Marino etc...

p.s....My Namecalling of Knicker above, was meant mostly to be funny.
Kinda like that old Saturday Night Live sketch with Dan Akroid and Jane Curtain.
'Point / Counter-point' I think it was called.

Its nice that I am a Troll, a Nazi, a Whatever...simpily because i say things you dont like.

I have offended people have I?
Yes...the TRUTH offends many. It always does.
Thats just too bad though.
I am not afraid to say what i think and believe and know as fact.
Just to save a few people frome becoming offended.
Be offended all you like. Its YOUR hangup, not mine.

Your calling me a Troll makes me laugh so much.
Its like i said above...if i dont agree with YOUR views on "Proper Debate" (IE: Agree with you)...you call people a Troll.

Hex, Knicker...You two guys are the most transparent people i know.
At least when it comes to Politics.
So keep talking and Denying all the evidence everywhere.

Predictably blind.

I know that a percent of what i think is bullshit anyways.
It all makes more sense to read what Nuclear Vampire said in that 'Who owns you' Thread.

Ok. For posterity sake...I will slightly retract what i said about Britain being a Terrorist State.
But not fully.
What i mean is Governments and Military are more to blame for being Terrorists.
Not the common citizens like Knicker.
I am 100% certain that the Government of Croatia is corrupt in its own way too.

I can only hope that we will raise our Children to make a better world for theyre Children.
Over time...maybe things can change.

Meanwhile....FLAME WARS!!!!!!!

Nice passive-aggressive post, by the way. It was the equivalent of saying "Please don't be offended when I tell you you're a bunch of dumbasses." I mean, you ask if it "makes us feel better about ourselves by swinging our great historical intellect around"? Are you serious? I dunno, but I don't feel the need to dumb down my thoughts around here and either should anyone else. I'm not even close to being the smartest member of this forum, and I love reading postings from people who are well-read and thoughtful.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Delightful Little Capuchin Monkey:
Imran... this section of the forum is about politics, science, etc. Let's say someone posts a story. Logic dictates that perhaps one of us may have an opinion on it, right? So for example, I chime in and say that I disagree. Then, one of my fellow forum members says that they disagree with my viewpoint and explains why. Sounds kind of like a, I don't know... a FORUM?

Nice passive-aggressive post, by the way. It was the equivalent of saying "Please don't be offended when I tell you you're a bunch of dumbasses." I mean, you ask if it "makes us feel better about ourselves by swinging our great historical intellect around"? Are you serious? I dunno, but I don't feel the need to dumb down my thoughts around here and either should anyone else. I'm not even close to being the smartest member of this forum, and I love reading postings from people who are well-read and thoughtful.

Imran, maybe - just MAYBE - you don't have to click on this forum. You might feel better. Stick to voting on which record is better or telling everyone how excited you are that your favorite awful thrash band has reunited to play your local Bob's Big Boy. Not that there's anything wrong with participating in light fun topics like those, but consider that there's also room for debate on the political issues of the day.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imran X:
Hatross, you forgot to add that the Koran comes with instructions in the back for how to build pipe bombs; I should know, I was raised Muslim. So next time, don’t forget to include that in any future anti-Muslim posts. By the way, I didn’t take it personally, not that you care if I did or didn’t, I don’t believe in organized religion, it’s just that you seem like a total racist to me. One more thing, “Jihad” technically means struggle.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Number 6:
Knicker...you pompus overbloated boob.

---

Pusillanimous.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
I will NOT retract that which is the truth.
United States, Great Britain, Israel...ARE TERRORIST COUNTRIES.
I not only speak of the Colonial past, but of the here and NOW.

---

It is NOT the truth. And I notice that you have toned that down somewhat in a later post. Our country is not a terrorist state.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
The ILLEGAL INVASION OF A SOVERIGN IRAQ is just one proof of this.

---

Who has judged this as illegal? Who? Please make it credible if you have such a judgement. As far as I am aware no legal body has judged the invasion of Iraq as illegal. The only people who have made such statements are moslem extremists and the anti american lobby.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
An Invasion that should NOT have happened.

---

I agree totally. It was the last resort. But our hand was forced. Time and time again we gave Saddam chances through diplomacy. Every time he played it to the absolute limit, and sometimes beyond. This has been going on for almost 15 years Kula, how long do you wait before you call the man's bluff??

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
You were warned by SMARTER Countries like Germany and France not to do it, but you
thumbed your nose at the MILLIONS of people around the world...and did it anyway.

---

Germany and France??? Smarter??? Oh yeah, real smart. They were against the war purely because they stood to lose billions of dollars of oil revenues from contracts they had negotiated with the Iraqi regime. The continuation of feeding that callous murderer with money so he and his circle could carry on oppressing the Iraqi people and living a lifestyle only the very richest can dream of, whilst the masses starved. Don't give me clever or smart. Snide and underhand is a better description.

People have a right to protest, and good on them for doing so. That is the beauty of democracy - the freedom to speak your mind without fear of oppression. Try that in Iran, Iraq under Saddam, China, North Korea, Burma to name a few examples. Two certainties would arise:

1. The protest would be broken up by any means necessary and the prostetors themselves would all be rounded up and arrested.
2. They would be tortured, and some would certainly be executed for acts against the state.

Yes our country's Government carried on with its action because it believed it to be the right course. It is not thumbing our noses at the protsestors. It is a difference of opinion. The protestors believe it was wrong to go into Iraq, our Government believed it had to be done.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
Now you cry and whine when your Murdering Soldiers are all shot up.

---

Sorry? Cry and whine about British soldiers dying? Where have I done that? That is a preposterous load of bollocks. Get with the picture kula, I posted not so long ago that in situations like this the deaths of soldiers and civilians were an inevitable consequence of the action within Iraq...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
Yet in the same breath, you call it "Collateral Damage" when an Iraqi Civilian
is needlessly killed.

---

You ingormaus! That statement that you have absolutely no grasp of reality. It is collateral damage because it is not the intention to kill them! We don't want to kill Iraqi civilians! Contrast that with the insurgents (that is EXACTLY what they are) who pack cars and lorries full of explosives and kill their own people just beacuse they want to be policemen! Do you see our forces doing that? Do you???

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
You also call those that fight you, "Insurgents."
What a fucking joke!
They are fighting for theyre own Country against the TERRORISM of the INVADERS...and you
have the nerve to call THEM the Terrorists and Insurgents??

---

They are insurgents because they are fighting against the will of the majority. Yes, kula the majority. In case it has escaped you, the pockets of resistance amount to a few thousand people. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe Iraq has a population of tens of millions? They want the occupying forces gone, that much is true, but not until the job is done and they can live without fear of oppression. Funny how that isn't reported isn't it?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
Propaganda Double-Speak...and YOU FALL FOR IT Knicker.

---

The only thing I fell for was hoping this debate could be reasonable. With you around that's about as likely as Lemmy having wart removal surgery.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
The List on that Website i provided shows exactly what TERRORIST activities your Country
and the United States / Israel have been engaged in...PRESENT TENSE!

---

Correct. It is in present tense. That's about all that is correct about it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
Of course it is full of Anti American talk! Why shouldnt it be?

---

It's full of anti american talk because the authors hate america and will twist any truth to support their theories.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
After all...YOU ARE THE TERRORISTS!!!

---

Even you disagree with that now.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
This is exactly what i knew would happen.
Once you see it all laid out in front of you...you STILL deny it!
This is why it is pointless for me to show you the truth of things...because you deny it every single time.

---

It is NOT the truth kula, it is anti US/UK propaganda!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
THEN....you will accuse me of being "Childish" and not engaging in "Proper Debate."

---

Absolutely. Because you post a plethora of links and then a stupid comment like 'look at the american murderers', then if I counter and tell you that in my view the links are just propaganda, you then get all emotional and start to throw insults around. That isn't debate! Your attitude reeks of a spoilt child who asked for some sweets and when his mom said no, starts screaming and stamping his feet. That isn't debating kula. That is why so many have lost respect for you.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
What a total bunch of shit!
When you are losing...you start with the accusations!
THAT is typical behaviour i expect from those who are blind.

---

Losing what exactly? And please, show me your evidence. I'll accept a link for that one

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
You also do not know the first thing about the Balkans either.
They are not barbarians like you think.
They are, in fact, a LOT smarter than you are Knicker.

---

Oh, you are in for a shock! Granted, there are some thouroghly decent people out there but trust me, there are some groups operating within that region that are far from savoury. Have an interesting time out there...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
My own child will be a Croatian Citizen.
I am so proud of that fact. THAT IS MY #1 REASON FOR GOING THERE!
And you BEST not say one ill word toward my Family and Child!
Not even I would do that to you or Warcorpse or anyone else.

---

Two points:

1. the nationality of a person means nothing. It's the person that counts.
2. Why would I say anything about your family or child? I know nothing whatever about them! That is seriously insulting.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
The people there too know the truth about you Brits and Americans.
After all...it was YOUR TERRORIST BOMBS that fell on theyre heads!

---

So the actions within the Balkans had nothing to do with a certain Serbian leader trying to ethnically cleanse Kosovo then? Oh, dear Kula you are so full of hatred for us that you cannot even remember why we went into the balkans in the first place. How convenient.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
Now, Knicker...Its time for you to go salute your flag.

---

Yep, I'm a Brit and I'm damn proud of it.

--------------------

I just wanted to correct some things you wrote about this terrirory where I live. Actually I'm no patriot so I won't be too passionate over this.
In couple of posts you claim that certain croatian leader was trying to ethnically cleanse Kosovo, which is a damn lie.
Ethnical cleansing happened in early 90s in only 2 countries: Croatia and Bosnia. Millions of people were literally slaughtered by Serbian Extremists (Kosovo was and still is a part of Serbia).
So...please stop spreading those lies because they insult me. I've lost too many friends and family members in that.
And one more thing...while that was happening...the world was watching and kinda supporting that stupid move of Milosevic's idiotism. Including your country.
Then their ass was finally bombed (not civilian targets, just military), after thousands of warnings and restrictions.

Yes, things are better there now, after many years of bitter conflict, much of it borne out of racial hatred. And there are still problems out there it is good that after such a bitter feud that Croatia and Serbia have much more responsible regimes running their affairs.

My apologies about Croatia/Serbia misinformation - it is correct that Slobodan Miosevic was leader of Serbia. That was a mistake on my part...Now corrected in the post above.

--------------------

There are three things that he always ends up saying about me:

1. That i am childish
2. That i dont know how to debate properly
3. That i have lost respect from everybody

EXACTLY the things i knew Knicker would say.
Everyone here knows i predicted this too...and sure enough it happens again.

1. Childish i am not. Its just another bit of Name-Calling from someone who has already lost.
2. Proper Debate. To Knicker, it means to mostly agree with him and not refute
what he says when he corrects you.
3. Lost Respect. I lost respect from only those people who dont like opposing views.
People who run from the truth and who fall right into Jewish hands when they are appalled
at someone bringing up the facts of Israeli lies.

Oh. Speaking of Respect. There are 3 main members on this little VVF Club who respect
nothing in the first place.
So...how can you lose the respect of people who dont have any to give in the first place?
These people love to use the Chat Room to whine and bitch about things they dont like.
(I am not talking about you, Knicker.)
I lost respect for them a LONG time ago.

Other than that, my response to those whom have lost respect for me because i dont
follow theyre "Politically-Correct" views...

I DONT GIVE A SHIT!

I am not going to sit here and pretend to be that which i am not, just to save a few
idiots from being shocked and having to THINK.

So, folks. Call me Childish, Insulting, Emotional, Ignorant, Naive, Racist, Nazi,
Communist, Marxist, Filthy Hypocryte, Smug, Arrogant, Egotistical, Misinformed,
Pot-clouded, Reactionary, Bitter...
and anything else you wish.

I DONT GIVE A FLYING FUCK!

I wish to point out that ALL of the above names and MORE, have been thrown at me by
the certain group of people on here, who are quickest to jump on any post i make.
Most of the Names above are just from this thread alone!
The others who dont post, usually use the Chat Room to heap insults on me...
and everyone else who dont conform to theyre fucked up standards.
Yet i am the one who gets exclusively accused of Name-Calling.
Of course, i have and wont deny it.
But look at YOURSELF before you accuse me of this.

Knicker. You need to realize that there are many more than you think who read all this mess
and for the mostpart, support what i say.
I am not perfect. Neither are you.
I realize that there are some things that are wrong.
But for you to deny everything every single time, shows where your mind is at and your
lack of any desire to see anything else outside that.
But thats ok. At least the Information is out there.
Others can see it. Others can not.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
I wish to point out that ALL of the above names and MORE, have been thrown at me by
the select group of 5 people on here, who are the quickest to jump on any post i make.
It is clear who they are.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
They would go after people just like you, Hatross! lol!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by portuga:
Hatross nothing wrong with being agnostic.
My country is largely catholic however our president is agnostic as a lot of other politicians, they dont do that to earn votes (they could just be quiet or silent).

What i mean by this is that there is freedom and state and church are well separated.

The worst episodes of our history have links to church like the infamous HOLY INQUISITION.
quote"i may believe in god and had a certain upbringing, but if someone says they wanna kick my ass believe me i wont just stand around."

You may believe or dont in what you want you're free to do that...and yes if they would wanna kick your ass you should fight.

The problem is the bad use and abuse of religion(ALL RELIGIONS).
If religion was taken in moderation it could even be good, but today every single piece of crap uses religion on its name to perform the worst atrocities.
Just like 2000, 1000 or 500 years ago...history repeats hitself.

---

all very good points portuga, you are right about the politicians but one thing that remains attached to the state is the laws we are governed by. laws set forth by religion/god and such. another thing that is the latest fad is to remove as much of god or bible scripture from the courts ! its one thing we have on our hands here because if it is a sucess then where would you/anyone place their hand in court when you are sworn in to testify, and also who would they have you/anybody swear before ?
to my understanding this is the methods used in the court system for most of the democracized countries, correct me if i dont have enough information on this, but how is it done in your country ?
this gives whole new meaning to me about politicians being 'crooks' it must be true along with 2-faced added, taught the laws handed down and told them as they were learning them given by a higher power, only to turn around and claim to be agnostic ! most politicians have been lawyers at some point or atleast earned their degree in law. it dont make any sense that democracy would wish to tear itself apart by removing the own laws that remain the core of its structure, but again you may be right, history repeats itself...

Oh, and in case you didn't notice, Silversurfer politely pointed out something to me, which I checked and realised it was incorrect. Read that post and learn how to be non-inflammatory.

And I noticed you didn't answer a single question either. There's a newsflash.

--------------------

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hatross:
kula... if my name is included in one of the 5, i would have to defend myself by saying you are mistaken. i have been verbal with you at times but only to the extent of what i stated in my previous post above. i actually like you bro, i figured we get along well enough even though i dont agree with you alot, i think your a hardcore mofo and thats cool with me \m/
its been awhile since i have been in the chatroom but the last time i was we had a good conversation that was non-political. i dont dislike anyone here, this is the Vod-Fans hangout !

---

You are not on that list. Dont worry dude.
Even though you have cussed me out, i usually take it with a grain of salt & laugh about it.
Its funny when you do that.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hatross:
and to get back to the stimulating intelligent conversation i had invisioned for this topic/thread. could you better explain what you meant by that ?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Number 6:
i suppose you support Israel as well.

---

quote:

---

So, folks. Call me Childish, Insulting, Emotional, Ignorant, Naive, Racist, Nazi,
Communist, Marxist, Filthy Hypocryte, Smug, Arrogant, Egotistical, Misinformed,
Pot-clouded, Reactionary, Bitter...
and anything else you wish.

---

I used two of those, and neither were used as insults.

1. Filthy Hypocrite. You are ready to use some pretty ripe language to describe 'terrorist atrocities' committed by the US/UK, yet you described the balkans as a free land??? Sorry, but though it's a lot better than it was there are still many problems there, and an awful lot of terrible atrocities were committed in that region. Nowhere is whiter than white Kula, and you are a hypocrite for implying that.

2. Ingorant (actually ignoramus). Used because you completely misrepresented our country's military actions in Iraq. For example the suicide bombs in Iraq take out mainly Iraqi civilians. A few troops are sometimes taken but far, far fewer casualties are inflicted on the coalition forces than on the Iraqis themselves. But you completely ignore this and instead make out that we, the coalition there are doing exactly this, namely just taking out Iraqi civilians. This is simply not true. We have killed civilians yes, but this is not intended by any means. The situation that exists within Iraq makes it very difficult not to inflict civilian casualties simply because of the environment the soldiers are working in. That's not to say it's acceptable, far from it. But I do think the soldiers do their very best to avoid civilian casualties, whereas the insurgents don't care who they kill as long as they get in the news. That is the difference between the coalition and the insurgents. That is why I called you an ignoramus.

Most of the other 'insults' came from one post - DLCM's back on the first page. A little unnecessary perhaps, but at the same time you have been throwing around more than your fair share of them yourself - without any provocation from anybody else. And though it's probably not what I would have posted I can understand DLCM's feelings, especially with some of your needless and very personal attacks on him. You never attempt to answer his questions, and all we see is a picture of a monkey and some little derisory comment hinting at his lack of intelligence. I believe you posted on another thread that I, amongst others, believe that my shit doesn't stink. I could easily level that at you now after your last post about name calling and insults.

At the end of the day the name calling, or insults, whatever you want to call it, is just that - words. Something I remember from my childhood seems appropriate here - sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me. You can call me what you like, but come the end they are only words, and we'll all go and live our lives afterwards. What really matters is the debate itself.

You have got seriously shirty because I, amongst others disagree with you and you have levelled many cutting comments at those that challenge you, some of them are very personal and at times quite offensive. From my point of view, do I care what you call me? No. Will I return the favour? Oh, most certainly. Will I moan about the names you have called me? NEVER, because it doesn't matter a jot, they are just words!!!

--------------------

You wonder why i dont answer your questions?
Because it is pointless to talk to someone like you.
Someone who tries to come off as knowing everything.
All you want to do is argue with things that are plain fact and reality in present tense.
Things like what the Americans/British are doing to the Iraqi People.
MANY MANY of these people long for the days of theyre great leader...Saddam.
Its better than what they have now, which is bloodshed coming from all sides, but mostly
the American/British side, simpily because they have the more deadly weapons of War.

You talk about the Balkans like they are some kind of evil people down there.
Why dont you do some research and compare the Atrocities.
On one side of your paper, list the American ones, on the other list the Balkan ones.
Then add them up.
I know for a fact you will need several pages for the American side, and only one for the Balkans side.

But go ahead and keep talking Knicker.
You know it all dont you?
British Government are so right on everything they do arent they?
So are the Americans, huh?
"Liberators" of the world.

I already admitted that i have called people names. Didnt read that did you?
Instead you want to nag nag nag like an old woman.

Also...I am so sorry that a picture of a cute little Monkey offends you so much.
Everyone else thinks its funny.
Probably even DLCM!
Hell! He is smart enough to see when i am just having fun with him!
Just like i do when he does the same to me.
Everyone but YOU, Knicker.

Please do us all a favor and quit your constant nagging.
Also...go to the Library & read some recent History.