When will humanity stop expanding? (and thus, stop decreasing the amount of space available for other species)

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My biggest gripe about 'Western' values, especially when it comes to health care is that we regard life as sacred and a person must be kept alive almost without regard to cost, human or otherwise. If we know we are going to die of a terminal illness why shouldn't we be able to choose to be put to sleep? Are we not animals also? Furthermore, does the denial of such a request violate our human rights? I think it does; I believe I have the right to choose to be euthanised if I have a terminal illness. For some obscure reason the European Court does not, and would prefer to see me die in agony, and possibly at great cost to valuable resources. These could go to much better use in my opinion.

This is just one example of upsetting the balance of nature - creating an increasinly geriatric, and less able race of humans. By pursuing such well intentioned, but ultimately foolish crusades we will, slowly but surely, destroy this planet.

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My thought is that the only way this race will survive the next few thousand years is if we either limit reproduction and virtually stop population growth, or we begin to inhabit other planets to lessen the burdon we place on our home world. Nonetheless, both options will require immense changes in the basic social and financial practices currently in place worldwide.

In other words, we are most likely doomed. The planet will survive with or without us.

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No it fucking isn't.

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Originally posted by X-D:
Eugenics seems like a bad idea actually, not just an arrogant one. What if an intentionally eliminated portion of the human race contains a genetic disposition that enables them to fight off some unknown disease or adapt to a sudden climate change? We'd all be screwed then!

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Bad science on your part - intelligent people, if they indeed come from all walks of life, would also have that mutation represented in their population. So at least some would survive.

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Originally posted by Charon:
Eugenics would be one of the least favorites of MAN'S solutions...therefore flawed.
I'm all for preservation of nature because nothing in this life to me is more beautiful and health and harmony inspiring than nature. I really need more of it.
Man has really fucked up a bunch of shit but I have to agree with delightful. We will pay for what we did in ways that we may never realize because for some reason...balance is practically impossible to acheive amoungst mankind. Discord is part of our nature. When we have something good, we take it for granted the majority of the time. Something unexpected will surely wipe us out.

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Unless we do something, like implement eugenics to reduce the population to an intelligent level

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Secondly. Intelligence is NOT genetic, nor is it inherited. Sure, you can have a disposition towards aptitude in certain fields, but if you don't work at it, you aren't going to fulfil any kind of potential. Humanity's already full of people like that.

By removing all those that don't fit your standards, you are seriously fucking with nature, and genetic diversity. Genetic diversity is crucial to the existance of any species on earth.

If you want to limit the expansion of the population, education and information is needed. Readily available birth control, family planning, sure. But not eliminating people because of a perception of inferiority.

No way,Fucking wrong answer!

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Originally posted by Lycanthropy:
Measured by what standards, though? The whole theory of eugenics is 'bad science'. You can't just say "reduce the population to an intelligent level", because firstly there are multiple 'intelligences'. What are you going to base it on? Mathematical aptitude? Linguistic ability?

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You can balance a number of factors in selection. If you believe in evolution, you believe in eugenics. But I see no one here is yet ready to do what must be done to reverse environmental decline.

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Originally posted by Lycanthropy:
Measured by what standards, though? The whole theory of eugenics is 'bad science'. You can't just say "reduce the population to an intelligent level", because firstly there are multiple 'intelligences'. What are you going to base it on? Mathematical aptitude? Linguistic ability? Common sense? Also, what would the yardsticks be? It's not feasible, even without the moral implications.

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1. Moral implications? When did morality become anything more than the controlling impulse of the weak? It isn't real, so why bother with it at all?

2. http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~cfc/Chabris1998a.html

This pretty much crushes the pitiful arguments you've raised.

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Secondly. Intelligence is NOT genetic, nor is it inherited.

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Riiiiight. I guess the massive evidence to the contrary is just God testing your faith in egalitarian dogma, right? Fortunately, you're vigilant. You weren't fooled! Your faith is unshakable.

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Sure, you can have a disposition towards aptitude in certain fields, but if you don't work at it, you aren't going to fulfil any kind of potential.

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First you say that intelligence isn't genetic, then you contradict yourself with your very next statement. Care to make up your mind, son?

And, let's be honest, the naturally stupid don't have any potential to fulfill, so even if a eugenics program leads to a fair number of underachievers (who would have been underachievers anyway), you're still far better off than you were before.

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By removing all those that don't fit your standards, you are seriously fucking with nature, and genetic diversity. Genetic diversity is crucial to the existance of any species on earth.

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What you would seem to be suggesting here is that intelligence is NOT equally distributed across the human population then. What an interesting observation. You might want to keep it to yourself though, your liberal comrades might cast you from the garden for being a racist.

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If you want to limit the expansion of the population, education and information is needed. Readily available birth control, family planning, sure. But not eliminating people because of a perception of inferiority.

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You are aware that traditional eugenics programs have always centered on birth control, rather than weeding out the existing population through more violent means, right?

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God does not exist, and it is best to keep it that way by not trying to assume his powers.

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Please enlighten me, who do you see as prime candidates for your eulogy program? I would be most interested in your view on this.

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Now, we'll try again...

What people do you think deserve to be eliminated from our species? Because let's face it, that is what eulogy is. Elimination of unwanted strains within a species, either by birth control or otherwise.

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Seeing as how Eugenics is clearly not just about birth control despite what anyone may say because although it never specifies the means...what it IS- IS selective breeding...

(this is an online deffinition)

"selective breeding as proposed human improvement: the proposed improvement of the human species by encouraging or permitting reproduction of only those individuals with genetic characteristics judged desirable. It has been regarded with disfavor since the Nazi period."

...then who is going to be the judge of what genetic traits are deemed desirable?

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Originally posted by Planetary Eulogy:
Obviously, decisions would need to rest in the hands of society's most intelligent members, but that's always been a basic need which liberal societies cannot meet (as, by definition, they privilege the masses, who are unfit to rule).

As for the cost, who really cares? The obsession with economy is the single most destructive aspect of contemporary society.

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The money used...which would be alot...could be used for solving problems we can't solve now because of a lack of money...which is part of the reason to implement Eugenics in the first place.

"Societies most intelligent members"...which will be decided by what and who?

Although I have never heard Dimmu Borgir they have a very cool website. I am looking forward to hearing them.

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Originally posted by Planetary Eulogy:
Money is fictitious, friend, it only has value because it has been agreed socially to have value. Who needs money when proper action can simply be coerced?

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Money is not fictitious and I am not your friend. In order for money to be fictitious someone would have to destroy the currency system.

Now...take your time...get your thesaurus out and make a decent attempt if you will, to explain to everyone who is going to be in charge of all these miraculous feats such as putting an end to what makes the world go around and cramming a centuries worth of genetic testing, not to mention the other 90% of the human mind that we do not yet understand into a time that you see fit to fix the worlds problems, PLUS getting rid of all the "excess" right before the introduction of your new and better world by a means that would sound PC amoungst the partakers of this now ridiculous ass thread...of course not for morality's sake but just so no one can argue with you.

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Originally posted by Charon:

Money is not fictitious

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Its value is. Money is a social convention, nothing more.

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Now...take your time...get your thesaurus out and make a decent attempt if you will, to explain to everyone who is going to be in charge of all these miraculous feats such as putting an end to what makes the world go around and cramming a centuries worth of genetic testing

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As noted before, the best way to go about it is simply to draft the most intelligent members of society and set them to the task of weeding out the unfit.

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not to mention the other 90% of the human mind that we do not yet understand

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Originally posted by Planetary Eulogy:
Actually, a eulogy is a funeral oration. Eugenics refers to any program of selective breeding and sterilization.

Maybe you shouldn't participate in discussions when you don't understand the issues under discussion, hmmm?

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My mistake. But that is purely diversional and you know exactly what I meant. I shall correct...

What people do you think deserve to be eliminated from our species? Because let's face it, that is what eugenics is. Elimination of unwanted strains within a species, either by birth control or otherwise.

Now answer the question and stop evading the issue at hand. Anything other than specifics will be regarded as ducking the issue and cowardice for not putting your money where your mouth is.

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