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Originally posted by Planetary Eulogy:
You are aware that the "90%" line is a myth, right? It was an urban legend created by dorks who want to believe in spoonbending and ESP. The reality is that scientists have a very good grasp of how the brain functions.

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Just because because spoonbending has been found to be a trick doesn't mean there is no such thing as ESP...and for you to dismiss it alongside spoonbending for drama purposes can be nothing more than your opinion which is in total opposition to what alot of people claim. Some insist that there is evidence but taking into consideration the arcane nature of telepathic abilities documentation is not going to be readily available. If something is considered supernatural or an exceptional ability then wouldn't it make sense that it is able to remain somewhat a mystery? Even so...I agree that its exsistance at this point can be proposed as nothing more than an opinion.

Much like your opinion. So that still leaves nothing actually said either way.

However, you agree that some people are genetically more intelligent than others therefore it should make sense to you and especially you that people's minds work in different ways. Some people have parts of their brain that are more active than others and most people have a very small percentage of their brain that is actually used on a day to day basis. Science may have a very broadscale and even seemingly thorough understanding on the functions of the brain...but do you actually think that each of those parts has been broken down by science and fully understood intricately...in their entirety? If so, then it would be science that could establish the presence of supernatural powers instead of them being..."supernatural"...but science has so far failed to even make a foolproof lie detector test. If science has all the answers concerning the human mind then mental disease would no longer be a problem...neither would stupidity. Therefore instead of putting an end to problems with Eugenics, science could fix them...which it obviously can't... so to say that there is enough scientific technology to even risk supporting such a risky idea as Eugenics makes you one of the first people to be weeded out.

Now before you say goodbye due to the results of your own asinine ideas...

perhaps you should ask those with money if its value is fictitious. I agree that its nothing more than paper, but it represents the present system to which almost all of mankind as already adhered itself to. Sure, you can take all the green out of your wallet and wipe your ass with it seeing as how its nothing more than paper but thats not going to help you one bit when you are faced with the reality of the entire world around you. In destroying that system you have a hell of alot more to do than burn paper and change some ideals.

Now...how many more times am I going to have to ask you?

I'll also say here that this is my last post in this thread, and I admit that my own first response was childish. However, I do wish to correct a few points and some choice mangling of meaning on your part.

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Riiiiight. I guess the massive evidence to the contrary is just God testing your faith in egalitarian dogma, right? Fortunately, you're vigilant. You weren't fooled! Your faith is unshakable.

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God? Who brought God into this? It still doesn't change the fact that intelligence is not genetically inherited! It's not faith, it's simply nature and nurture. You can have a predisposition towards something, but you won't necessarily be good at it in actuality. You can be predisposed to contracting a brain tumour, you won't necessarily develop one. One's life experiences play a huge part in determining their 'ability' in later life, whether it be social or intellectual circumstances. Show me the studies that give testament to the contrary, and I'll read them.

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What you would seem to be suggesting here is that intelligence is NOT equally distributed across the human population then. What an interesting observation. You might want to keep it to yourself though, your liberal comrades might cast you from the garden for being a racist.

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If I had said that "Intelligence among those of african origin in comparison to those of european origin", as scientists once did, that would have been racist. However, I did not. Merely admitting that not everyone has as high a level of intellect of others does not make me racist. DId I say anything about them being inferior, as you have alluded? No, I did not. Clutching at straws here.

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You are aware that traditional eugenics programs have always centered on birth control, rather than weeding out the existing population through more violent means, right?

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Yes, I did know that. But the ones I suggested were and are voluntary. Education, coupled with economic growth leads to a reduced birth rate anyway. However, the methods you propose would likely be more along the Wannsee lines. Zapping people's genitals with X-rays hidden in desks? Very non-violent.

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If he doesn't exist, he has no powers to assume, so it's not much of a problem now is it?

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God may not exist, but to ignore the connotations of the word 'God' is idiocy. A being or beings with absolute powers over life or death. He may not exist, but he could be created.

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Originally posted by Planetary Eulogy:
I think we can safely dismiss as irrelevant the beliefs and opinions of nutjobs who believe in ESP. They're clearly so far out of touch with reality that nothing they say can be taken seriously.

Don't forget your tinfoil hat, kid.

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I think you do not have the proof that everyone, including scientist are nutjobs because they associate known abnormal brain activity with telepathic abilities. How do you explain dreams that come true, premonitions, premonitions that are known to occur during a critical point of abnormal brain activity such as seizures, convulsions...Can you say 100% of that is false because it has never happened to you? Its merely a matter of opinion in your case...and that is not nessessarly so in someone speaking from firsthand experience. You are not qualified to make that call simply because you don't believe it.

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Originally posted by warcorpse:
................ Just look at Sweden which had an eugenics program for 40 years (sterilization of unfit women) up until the 70s. It was the cheapest way to support the immense financial weight of it's socialist welfare state which was threatened by the large number of unwanted childbirths in socially deprived families. Sure, they are proud of their socialist utopia, but they won't be bragging about the guilt.
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Yes, we had it in sweden, that's true. Most people didn't know about this (sterilization of unfit women and men). It's still a very "infected" topic.

Sweden has never been a "pure" socialist society, we've always had a Mixed Economy.

After the second world war our society had a lack of people. In the 50's to little children were born. In the 60's companies started to "import" labour. Many families came from other countries, and they were more than welcome.

My grandfather knew about what was going on during 40's. He was a socialist and he was against the Nazis, the holocoust, the "eugenics", he wanted the swedish government to stand against Hitler. Many "red" socialists ended up in working-camps here in sweden, the government claimed they were a danger to the society. During the war there was a coalition goverment, news-papers and such were censored.

We had an underground movement that tried to save as many refugees as possible, people like my grandfather tried to help people to get across the border and into sweden where they would hide the refugees out on the country-side.

It was most of all the "right-wing" people that was open to the nazis, they liked Hitler and his politics.

Today the situation is that the only ones who wants to touch this "infected" issue is the left-wing socialists (here in sweden). They are against any kind of eugenics. This is something we do not wish for in the future.

No, the leaders in our society do not wish to touch this topic. Now the "Palme center" have some information about what happened.

I know what happened; my grandparents were alive to see and to tell me.

Words like eugenics and races....
I think it is strange because from what I know there are only one human race and we are all human beings, HOMO SAPIENS, no matter where we are born, what religion, what skin-colour, what culture.....

My view (and many other peoples), is that we have to fight against the racism and Nazism, no matter what kind of "political view" they might have.

Nazis often tries to "hide" behind the political view that is the most popular at the moment. They like to make people confused. They want people to be confused.

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Originally posted by Planetary Eulogy:
I would focus on the elimination of those below the current median level of intelligence, those who are carriers of certain hereditary illnesses (such as cystic fibrosis), and perhaps those who are genetically predisposed towards major mental illnesses.

Beyond that, I would like to see sensible, sustainable population levels across the board.

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Interesting. So Stephen Hawking would fit into this category I take it - he suffers from Gehrig's Disease, or it's medical term, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, a progressive neurological disease. He has spent much of his time in a wheelchair, yet wrote one of the most ground breaking books 'A Brief history Of Time'. What is more impressive is that he holds the post of Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at Cambridge, a position once held by none other than Isaac Newton himself. Does he become a victim of this policy?

Also, the median level of intelligence is meaningless unless you define what the criteria for judging intelligence is. For instance, most builders I know can barely read or write, their maths is terrible and they know very little about the world around them. Yet they would be the first people I would turn to if I needed essential building maintenance done to my house. Conversely I know some people who could do complex maths without so much as a blink of an eye, have immense grasp of literature and art, yet they have all the commonsense and practical skills of a corpse. I wouldn't let them so much as turn on a tap, they are that much af a disaster area! So, the question here is what is intelligence? The builder's or the mathematicians? Not so easy I think.

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Originally posted by Planetary Eulogy:
You can balance a number of factors in selection. If you believe in evolution, you believe in eugenics. But I see no one here is yet ready to do what must be done to reverse environmental decline.

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Interesting argument, but fatally flawed. Evolution is quite literally the survival of the fittest. Crocodiles are prime examples of this; they have adapted and survived the relentless geological changes of this planet with remarkable ease. Their only real enemy is man, but that is merely down to hunting, an artificial control created by us in an attempt to keep their numbers down.

Eugenics is selection of the most worthy as defined by subjective criterion. The two are not the same. Any group of people that are charged with defining the crtierion of 'the fittest of the species' will almost invarialby be soiled with their own prejudices. Effectively they are being asked to simulate natural forces with artificial countermeasures. Not possible. Nature has no prejudices, but we all do. Therefore a eugenics policy would merely become another form of genocide.

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Originally posted by AnnkiZ:
My view (and many other peoples), is that we have to fight against the racism and Nazism, no matter what kind of "political view" they might have.

Nazis often tries to "hide" behind the political view that is the most popular at the moment. They like to make people confused. They want people to be confused.

There only exists ONE HUMAN RACE. This is what I belive and nothing can change my mind in this.

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I simply could not have put this better if I tried...Good post

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