It is the consensus of those who understand our Constitution
and the intentions of our founding Fathers, that if you don't
call congress & demand the impeachment of

George W. Bush & Dick Cheney,
(defenders of nothing, betrayers both)

you are most likely failing in your duty as an American Citizen.

I don't give a fuck if you are "political" or not. I also care 'not at all' which side of the 'fence' you reside on. This is a NATIONAL CRISIS. Your so-called president is slowly transforming his office into a DICTATORSHIP -- little by little, just like fucking Hitler did it.

Where will we all be if there is another 911-style attack just before the elections of '08, and the Little Dictator declares martial law and suspends the elections? THAT is one frightening scenario my friends, and everything is already in place.

DO NOT LET THE DEMOCRAT-CONTROLLED CONGRESS sit on their wimpy (with a few exceptions, i.e. Kucinich) little hands and sit it out, because they don't want to upset the status quo going into the elections in '08. MAKE THEM ACT -- YOU HAVE THE POWER. Get the facts by clicking above.

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"You have the option to drill additional holes in the label,
causing the record to rotate off the side of the turntable"

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Tangento:
Sorry, but it's time to quit fucking around. If I ruffle a few feathers, so be it.
Mods, if you must move this to T.M. section, so be it -- but please give it a few days.

It is the consensus of those who understand our Constitution
and the intentions of our founding Fathers, that if you don't
call congress & demand the impeachment of

George W. Bush & Dick Cheney,
(defenders of nothing, betrayers both)

you are most likely failing in your duty as an American Citizen.

I don't give a fuck if you are "political" or not. I also care 'not at all' which side of the 'fence' you reside on. This is a NATIONAL CRISIS. Your so-called president is slowly transforming his office into a DICTATORSHIP -- little by little, just like fucking Hitler did it.

Where will we all be if there is another 911-style attack just before the elections of '08, and the Little Dictator declares martial law and suspends the elections? THAT is one frightening scenario my friends, and everything is already in place.

DO NOT LET THE DEMOCRAT-CONTROLLED CONGRESS sit on their wimpy (with a few exceptions, i.e. Kucinich) little hands and sit it out, because they don't want to upset the status quo going into the elections in '08. MAKE THEM ACT -- YOU HAVE THE POWER. Get the facts by clicking above.

---

First off, you are missing my point almost entirely. I am far less concerned about whether or not they WILL do any of these things, it's that they have created the POSSIBILITY for it to take place. WHY IS THIS MAN DEFYING OUR CONSTITUTION?

Lee, you should also take a closer look at my post: where did I EVER state that 911 was an inside job? While I would never rule it out entirely, it is not AT ALL a factor in my current tirade. And do you honestly think that Bush & Co. would even attempt and instantaneous 'takeover' at any point, now or then? As for the Hitler comparison, I am only doing so in terms of the gradual tactics shared by both.

One of the real questions here is this:

Why the fuck is Bush eliminating long-standing citizen's rights-protecting laws and writs such as Habeas Corpus, The Geneva Convention & Posse Comatatus? Why is he (slowly but surely) giving himself power beyond even that of someone like Napoleon or King George III, who was the focal point of our very own Revolutionary War?

I'll be here during the weekend to discuss this with anyone who cares to. I have been doing a great deal of research on this subject, and I guarantee that there will be NO "conspiracy theories" flowing from my keyboard, bro.

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"You have the option to drill additional holes in the label,
causing the record to rotate off the side of the turntable"

as I was reading your post for the for the first time. I got the two intertwined.

And I'm not sure about Jefferson but I don't think you can say that Washington, Hamilton, or Lincoln would have had a problem with what Bush is doing today. None of these three were strict constructionists. Hamilton in particular believed in a very loose interpretation of the constitution and a powerful Federal government. I know I won't have to worry about being bitch-slapped by him when I die. Haha.....

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mezcalhead:
I believe the less government involves itself in people's lives the better off we are for it. So this is a hard one for me.

---

Yeah? So where does this leave you in terms of the neocon agenda?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mezcalhead:
I think looking at this from a historical perspective what is happening today is not what one would call unusual. I honestly do not think that the Patriot Act actually changed anything. After 9/11 politicians had to promote some 'changes' in an effort that would not really improve anything (i.e.HOMELAND SECURITY) but simply provide the appearance that something was being done to stop the enemy threat. The reason was to show that they were making an attempt to improve the system. You actually believe that domestic surveillance by the government is something new?? Especially during wartime??

---

Wartime? Which war is that? This sham they're calling the "war on terror"? Or is it the illegal OCCUPATION of Iraq which is based entirely on LIES that you are referring to? (and by the way, the 'goings-on' in Iraq have been planned by Dubya since before 911, and even before his first so-called election)

What Bush has done: bypassing FISA guidelines, commiting untold acts of domestic surveillance and then BRAGGING about it directly to the American People is unprecedented, and is an affront to the 4th Amendment. What does Bush's oath of Office say about the Constitution, Lee?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mezcalhead:
And I'm not sure about Jefferson but I don't think you can say that Washington, Hamilton, or Lincoln would have had a problem with what Bush is doing today. None of these three were strict constructionists. Hamilton in particular believed in a very loose interpretation of the constitution and a powerful Federal government. I know I won't have to worry about being bitch-slapped by him when I die. Haha.....

---

Regardless of their respective philosophical tendencies, I submit that none of the above would approve the gradual transformation of this presidency into what amounts to a dictatorship, especially under such sordid circumstances, and through the use of such dishonest, underhanded tactics.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mezcalhead:
Bush will be replaced; and probably by a Democrat, next year...actually not long now, so don't worry, its gonna be okay.

---

First, you still haven't addressed my concern that Bush, under his bleak little Tim Burton-esque umbrella of executive orders, signing statements & powermad behavior, may very well find a way to suspend the next presidential elections. Secondly, I cannot stand by quietly and allow this president to get away with his ever-growing list of Constitutional violations, and worse yet, to pass this ridiculously skewed balance of power to the next President -- no matter who they are.

If nothing else, this country needs for the Houses of Congress to re-assert themselves as an equal (and FUNCTIONAL) branch of Government.

(in case you missed my embedded link, have a look at this:
Applied Psychoanalysis: Dangers of a Cornered Bush )

--------------------

"You have the option to drill additional holes in the label,
causing the record to rotate off the side of the turntable"

The Qur'an says that Allah curses the one who harms the Prophet in this world and He connected harm of Himself to harm of the Prophet. There is no dispute that anyone who curses Allah is killed and that his curse demands that he be categorized as an unbeliever. The Judgment of the unbeliever is that he is killed. [...] There is a difference between ... harming Allah and His Messenger and harming the believers. Injuring the believers, short of murder, incurs beating and exemplary punishment. The judgment against those who harm Allah and His Prophet is more severe -- the death penalty.

Please ask yourself had our government done absolutely nothing after 9/11 would the Muslim terrorists simply closed up shop and gone back home to Tora Bora? Of course not! For me, this is a struggle to maintain western civilization. Their mission is to disrupt and destroy the progress of that civilization. With that big picture in mind, I then can easily rationalize why its okay for the FBI to sidestep FISA when tracking down the fellow at the flight school asking questions about how hard it is to open up the cockpit door mid-flight……
From WSJ by Mark Riebling:

While no one in the FBI is saying it aloud, the truth is these FISA guidelines may well have prevented the FBI from foiling the Sept. 11 attacks. Agents knew that Moussaoui, detained in Minneapolis on immigration violations, had spent two months in Pakistan, where al Qaeda recruited many operatives. They knew also that he had attended a flight school, where he showed unusual interest in whether cabin doors could be opened during flight. Under the strict provisions of FISA, however, the bureau lacked "probable cause" to hack Moussaoui's computer or tap his phone. Consequently, the FBI lost its best chance to learn of Moussaoui's links to the other Sept. 11 conspirators before they could strike.

On point 2, the war. Justification. Let's see, why not look back at the Clinton administration's speeches on Hussein's WMD situation back during his term. Don't want to? I don't blame you..I wouldn't either if I was a liberal. That kind of muddies the waters. I would imagine that this means the neocons were influencing US Intelligence during the Bill years as well. Those son of a bitches had been working on this for a while, eh?

Point 3, Unprecedented?????? You obviously have never heard of a guy named J. Edgar Hoover and his beloved Cointelpro. The Patriot Act pales in comparison…….FISA was passed after the hoopla over Watergate by your good friend Ted Kennedy in a totally different time and place. But wait…here’s another quote from the Riebling article:

But the U.S. was not a fascist dictatorship before Ted Kennedy and Jimmy Carter rode to the rescue. Our current surveillance rules are neither constitutionally required, nor traditionally American. They were observed neither by Mr. Kennedy's elder brothers, nor by any presidents or attorneys general before the Carter presidency. For the first two centuries of our country's history, threats to our national security were countered without warrant. And the Supreme Court, from Olmstead v. U.S. (192 to U.S. v. U.S. District Court (1972), has allowed warrantless surveillance in national security, as opposed to criminal, investigations.

Hmmm…interesting. Again, Bush’s actions are without precedent? Constitutionally criminal? Think again……

Point 4, Impossible to speculate but fun nonetheless… I think the philosophical tendencies of these men are of the utmost importance. Again it gets back to how great a threat does one regard Islamic fascism.

Point 5, From the wonderful Wikipedia under War Powers:
Under the Constitution, war powers are divided, not equal. Congress has the power to declare war and raise and support the armed forces (Article I, Section , while the president is Commander in Chief (Article II, Section 2). It is generally agreed that the Commander in Chief role gives the president power to repel attacks against the United States and makes him responsible for leading the armed forces.

I find much of your assumptive, rhetoric-riddled post to be
bordering on the insulting, but it's far too late to begin my retort.

For the record, I am far from a "liberal".

'Radical Middle' would be a better descriptive, at least to start.

--------------------

"You have the option to drill additional holes in the label,
causing the record to rotate off the side of the turntable"

the libs ARE running the country again, not the Bush administration ! And in fact Bush has threatened veto on several bills recently.

FACT #2: what the blessed Bush administration has done, no president will be able to dig out of until maybe the 2012 elections. Bush will be looked back on just as Regan is now.

illegal OCCUPATION
Dictatorship

HAHA !

FACT #3: the iraqis do not want the U.S. to leave.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hatross:
[QB]In case no one has noticed, the Democrats took the majority of the house some time ago. So all the complaints can be directed to the party they want in office. From where I stand it looks like Bush is just a gimp/scapegoat, 'someone to point the finger at' and it also looks like its working for those who cant see the big picture, as it has all thru history.

the libs ARE running the country again, not the Bush administration ! And in fact Bush has threatened veto on several bills recently.

FACT #2: what the blessed Bush administration has done, no president will be able to dig out of until mabye the 2012 elections. Bush will be looked back on just as Regan is now.

illegal OCCUPATION
Dictatorship

HAHA !

FACT #3: the iraqis do not want the U.S. to leave.

---

--------------------

"You have the option to drill additional holes in the label,
causing the record to rotate off the side of the turntable"

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mezcalhead:
On the first point...you have to ask yourself if radical Islam is a great enough threat to warrant our civil liberties being compromised. I’m certain your response would be absolutely not…those harmless little ruffians will stop messing with us when we stop messing with them. I disagree completely as it is simply a fact these people are trying at every opportunity to kill us.

---

There's no question that we live in dangerous times. So let's have a look at what Bush has actually done about it: Well, he has turned the whole fucking thing on its ear. Remember soon after the attacks, when we had damn near the entire world on our side? Afghanistan was the target, and we were all on the same page. Then 'The Decider' decided that it was time to follow through with his Big Dream: Topple Saddam. The lies began to flow, the troops were redeployed, and the bombs flew freely.

Fast forward to now, and we can all see what this has accomplished in the Grand Battle on Terror: nothing good, or even remotely productive. He took his eye off the prize, and Osama still laughs at us all, supposedly from a remote cave in Pakistan. Meanwhile, much of the world now hates the U.S. deeply, and new extraordinarily irate terrorist cells are sprouting up all over the fucking place.

For this colossal foriegn policy blunder ALONE, the man should be held accountable for crimes against humanity.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mezcalhead:
Compare our free society, even with the wiretaps, to a world governed by sharia law. Here’s a little excerpt for ya:

The Qur'an says that Allah curses the one who harms the Prophet in this world and He connected harm of Himself to harm of the Prophet. There is no dispute that anyone who curses Allah is killed and that his curse demands that he be categorized as an unbeliever. The Judgment of the unbeliever is that he is killed. [...] There is a difference between ... harming Allah and His Messenger and harming the believers. Injuring the believers, short of murder, incurs beating and exemplary punishment. The judgment against those who harm Allah and His Prophet is more severe -- the death penalty.

---

Gotta love those zany religious zealots.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mezcalhead:
Please ask yourself had our government done absolutely nothing after 9/11 would the Muslim terrorists simply closed up shop and gone back home to Tora Bora? Of course not! For me, this is a struggle to maintain western civilization. Their mission is to disrupt and destroy the progress of that civilization. With that big picture in mind, I then can easily rationalize why its okay for the FBI to sidestep FISA when tracking down the fellow at the flight school asking questions about how hard it is to open up the cockpit door mid-flight……
From WSJ by Mark Riebling:

While no one in the FBI is saying it aloud, the truth is these FISA guidelines may well have prevented the FBI from foiling the Sept. 11 attacks. Agents knew that Moussaoui, detained in Minneapolis on immigration violations, had spent two months in Pakistan, where al Qaeda recruited many operatives. They knew also that he had attended a flight school, where he showed unusual interest in whether cabin doors could be opened during flight. Under the strict provisions of FISA, however, the bureau lacked "probable cause" to hack Moussaoui's computer or tap his phone. Consequently, the FBI lost its best chance to learn of Moussaoui's links to the other Sept. 11 conspirators before they could strike.

---

DUDE. Think about this for a moment. HOW MUCH WARNING DID BUSH RECIEVE from the exiting Clinton administration? A wealth of info, all of it DIRECTLY related to these impending attacks was right there for them, and Bush's people made a conscious decision to ignore it all.

As for the FISA guidelines, all these people have (or had) to do was obtain a (very easily obtained) warrant. Why do we now have all of these shadowy maneuvers and outright refusals to follow simple rules?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mezcalhead:
On point 2, the war. Justification. Let's see, why not look back at the Clinton administration's speeches on Hussein's WMD situation back during his term. Don't want to? I don't blame you..I wouldn't either if I was a liberal. That kind of muddies the waters. I would imagine that this means the neocons were influencing US Intelligence during the Bill years as well. Those son of a bitches had been working on this for a while, eh?

---

Look, we can go REAL deep into this thing, and come out with a gaggle of very disturbing facts and a jumbo bucket of conspiracy-type scenarios . The Billary Clinton-thing (disturbingly endorsed recently, by the Wacky Media Monopolist Himself -- Rupert the Poopert Murdoch) may not be above suspicion on several fronts; however I believe the Iraq invasion is owned entirely By GWB alone.

Go over here for a minute: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2005/06/20/why_george_went_to_war.php

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mezcalhead:
Point 3, Unprecedented?????? You obviously have never heard of a guy named J. Edgar Hoover and his beloved Cointelpro. The Patriot Act pales in comparison…….FISA was passed after the hoopla over Watergate by your good friend Ted Kennedy in a totally different time and place. But wait…here’s another quote from the Riebling article:

But the U.S. was not a fascist dictatorship before Ted Kennedy and Jimmy Carter rode to the rescue. Our current surveillance rules are neither constitutionally required, nor traditionally American. They were observed neither by Mr. Kennedy's elder brothers, nor by any presidents or attorneys general before the Carter presidency. For the first two centuries of our country's history, threats to our national security were countered without warrant. And the Supreme Court, from Olmstead v. U.S. (192 to U.S. v. U.S. District Court (1972), has allowed warrantless surveillance in national security, as opposed to criminal, investigations.

Hmmm…interesting. Again, Bush’s actions are without precedent? Constitutionally criminal? Think again……

---

No. All I need to do is complete my statement: The warrantless wiretapping -- in combination with this growing list of Constitutional violations -- is unprecedented. Especially when one considers the utter contempt, smugness and flagrant disregard for the law which has been exhibited by nearly the entire administration throughout this decade.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mezcalhead:
Point 4, Impossible to speculate but fun nonetheless… I think the philosophical tendencies of these men are of the utmost importance. Again it gets back to how great a threat does one regard Islamic fascism.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mezcalhead:
Point 5, From the wonderful Wikipedia under War Powers:
Under the Constitution, war powers are divided, not equal. Congress has the power to declare war and raise and support the armed forces (Article I, Section , while the president is Commander in Chief (Article II, Section 2). It is generally agreed that the Commander in Chief role gives the president power to repel attacks against the United States and makes him responsible for leading the armed forces.

That’s pretty straightforward and from what I recall conforms to the events that led to the war in Iraq. Suspension of the next election? I would seriously doubt this but if it happens I owe you a six pack. (sorry to be so coy but I’m getting tired of writing) I predict the Neocons will be removed and the Clintons will again take over the reins. And then its bright skies ahead right??? It takes a village………….

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You forgot to mention the part where THEY LIED in order to gain public & congressional support for the invasion. In closing, I'll assume that you agree with my statement about what Congress must do, and it's nice to see your more recent comments about ol' Gonzo. The man is an embarassment to us all.

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"You have the option to drill additional holes in the label,
causing the record to rotate off the side of the turntable"

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tangento:
Aside from the obvious errors, I could really use a translation of this utterly incoherent post.

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I am really dissapointed in you tang, never realized you were in with the weak minded libs. I just figure voivodfans to be the type to look into things further instead of taking that spoon-fed baby food you been consuming from the media.

Direct and to the point (thats something the left could never handle)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hatross:
I am really dissapointed in you tang, never realized you were in with the weak minded libs. I just figure voivodfans to be the type to look into things further instead of taking that spoon-fed baby food you been consuming from the media.

Direct and to the point (thats something the left could never handle)

Besides your posts are coming straight out of some newspaper. Which is quite obvious...

---

Spoon fed? MEDIA? Why do I get the feeling you've been brainwashed by Rupert? Let's have a look at YOUR list of news resources, Hatross. Don't be embarrassed now. ALL I have done in this thread is act as a responsible American Patriot, and attempt to gather support for a Constitution in severe distress. What the fuck have YOU done for your country lately? Looking forward to that list as well.

Here's an honest question: do you feel that George Bush is serving this Nation's best interest? Which of his policies do you support? If you say all of them, I pity you severely.

And then he accuses me of plagarizing newspapers... Aside from editorial pages, I'd sure like to know which newspapers out there are talking about these things, because I sure can't find any. You see, my posts are written the old fashioned way: I gather information from a wide variety of credible resources, do my homework, and formulate opinions ALL BY MYSELF! Imagine that!

Unlike 'some folks', I don't sit in front of the idiot box memorizing Fox Opinions Network's neocon talking points -- and then run around calling everyone who doesn't agree "a tree-hugging lib". FUCKING PATHETIC, bro. Certainly, the Voivodian disappointment here is mine. Hatross, your ignorance is showing, and I'm afraid it's time to remove those blinders and learn a thing or two about the real world.

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"You have the option to drill additional holes in the label,
causing the record to rotate off the side of the turntable"

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tangento:
to bring my faith into this.

---

Sorry if i insulted you (its just reactionary) I was not targeting you or your faith, Just an observation to your claim of the middle.

quote:

---

your ignorance is showing, and I'm afraid it's time to remove those blinders and learn a thing or two about the real world.

---

The real world eh, And where the hell are you ? Shit man you even said it yourself ("there aint nothing here in MN") Well my friend I am right here in the Crash - 2007. You come and live here in the big city for awhile, mabye then you'll get a different vibe from the air.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hatross:
Sorry if i insulted you (its just reactionary) I was not targeting you or your faith, Just an observation to your claim of the middle.

---

Fine, then no offense taken. Perhaps we shouldn't use such broad generalizations regarding political leanings, religious convictions and combinations thereof? That would most likely prevent all sorts of problems.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hatross:
The real world eh, And where the hell are you ? Shit man you even said it yourself ("there aint nothing here in MN") Well my friend I am right here in the Crash - 2007. You come and live here in the big city for awhile, mabye then you'll get a different vibe from the air.

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I spent the first 35 years of my life in and around Los Angeles... which is kind of 'big', and Minneapolis isn't quite the backwoods either.

So what, no lists for me?

Hey Mez, how about a little background and perhaps a URL to go with that morbid pic of yours?

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"You have the option to drill additional holes in the label,
causing the record to rotate off the side of the turntable"

--------------------

The Real World: circa 2003
http://www.noendinsightmovie.com/

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cthon:
funny that Hatross used the word "crash" considering what happened in Minneapolis this week. or not funny, really, but you get my drift.

---

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"You have the option to drill additional holes in the label,
causing the record to rotate off the side of the turntable"

quote:

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Man. I can't even count the times I've driven across that fucking bridge, and quite a few of those with my daughter in the car.

---

a good friend of mine has an apartment 100 or so yards from that bridge. intense stuff...

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