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Author Topic: Let's try this...
KnickerZohnonnof
VoivodFan
Member # 272

posted May 08, 2012 17:03     Profile for KnickerZohnonnof   Email KnickerZohnonnof     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Since when do we have a "scorched earth" policy toward the environment? We in the west have to change our ways? Is this where you tell me we need wind powered cars and solar powered airplanes?

Since the time your nation, with 5% of the world's population, uses almost 1/3 of the worlds energy. We, the west have to change our ways, not just you. What that is I don't know because the current 'green' ideas don't work and in some cases are even worse than what we have now. Wholesale change is needed in our energy policy. We can't rely on fossil fuels forever and instead of looking for more fossil fuels our scientists should be given the necessary budgets to find the energy sources of the future. Wind is not the long term answer and never has been.

quote:
The tax system is flawed. We should have a flat tax. It would solve the problem. Targeting the rich is merely class envy, not a practicality. Fix the problem. The corporations and "rich people" that are being scapegoated are not breaking the law, or else it would be a whole different ball game. The tax code is a mess. I take whatever deductions are legal. Who wouldn't? Flat tax solves the whole mess.

Believe it or not we sing from the same hymn sheet. Legal avoidance (because of vague government policy) is a major problem for your country and ours and it is made worse when you see examples of rich people paying 15% tax, perfectly legally and this is less than what I pay (or even the president in this case) Tax laws are way too complex and are designed for accountants to find loopholes - I have always thought this. A 'flat' tax rate, paid by all without exceptions would help a lot I think.

quote:
So, you're telling me the that the underpaid, underemployed, unemployed, elderly, and children don't count as citizens? Half of America pays no taxes, placing the full burden on the other half. This administration is spending China's money with no regard to the tax base. It's spending so fast that we will never recover. The number of underpaid, underemployed, and unemployed continues to rise because of this president's policies. It is his intent to put as many as possible on the government dole. A nation of dependents is exactly what the left wants.

No, I didn't say that - I am merely pointing out who the 49% are, and they cannot help the position they find themselves in. And again, your country and ours have been heading this way for a long time. It was only a matter of time (such as the recent recession) that the policies of the last 20-30 years finally came home to roost. Your country has been spending China's money for much longer than 3 years. Like us, your politicians basically sold their souls to the cheap employment haven that is China without thinking about the long term consequences for our respective countries. Now, with our manufacturing bases hugely weakened, the folly is slowly but surely dawning on the ordinary folk.

I don't think for one minute that Obama's intention is to put as many people on the dole as possible. Apart from it being electoral suicide no country can sustain that path and I really don't think that's where you are heading. You are working through the pain of what has gone before - this does not happen overnight.

quote:
If I have to hear the mindless "Bush's fault" shit once more...

From this side of the pond he looks culpable, so I'm afraid you will hear it some more.

quote:
I'd like to hear just one of Obama's accomplishments. He has succeeded in further dividing the country, ramping up the debt faster than anyone could have imagined, taking over private industry, sunk billions into failed green energy projects, and vacationing like he's won a game show a week for three years. His only possible accomplishment is getting Jimmy Carter off the hook as the worst US president in history.

He succeeded in pissing the right off, which is fine by me. He is going to pull you out of two of the most expensive and pointless wars in recent history. Pointless because the men at the helm (Bush/Blair) decided that headlines were more important than strategy. All they have achieved is more hate towards the west and even less security, not more. I think you will find if he didn't take over the private industries they would have failed altogether, the same reasons Northern Rock and RBS were nationalised in the UK. Your unemployment situation would be a sight worse if he hadn't intervened. Once again, your debt has risen because years of tax cuts for the rich have finally taken their toll. That happened under Bush's watch. It didn't happen overnight.

quote:
We're paying double for gas what we were paying three years ago, largely because Obama has blocked most domestic drilling. The UK is about the size of Oregon. This is a fairly large country, requiring more gas and oil to do what needs to be done. Gas prices at $8/gal would bring everything to a halt.

Ask the question - why are those operations being closed? Are they economic? We have lived with $7-$8 per gallon fuel costs for the last 2 years and its going to get worse. Like I said, think yourself lucky. But you could help yourselves by driving more fuel efficient cars. We've had to make the adjustments - V6's are slowly dying out in the mass car range and V8's are seldom seen now.

quote:
I've never heard anyone, anywhere speak of the NHS, so I don't believe there's a "right wing smear" going on in the US at least. Chuck's situation with his insurance company was tragic, at best. Health care reform is necessary and there are several options the continue to get blocked by lobbyists. Nationalizing the health care system is not the answer. This government can't even run a postal service in the black and you want to put your health care in their hands? No fucking thank you.

Why not? I'd much rather government run it than a bunch of individuals whose primary concerns are the shareholders and their bonuses.

quote:
"You don't need them (guns)". Well, in a word, "Bullshit".

Really? That's because its all you have known. In the UK we have only known strict gun controls for decades. Nobody I know wants it to change and there is no appetite for relaxing gun controls because we don't want or need it. Why do we need, or why would we want to carry a lethal weapon such as a gun?

quote:
Obama is not the answer long term or short term. Latest polls show that he will likely be one term. Is this country is to survive, that's exactly what needs to happen.

Be careful what you wish for.

quote:
s you can see, both of our countries suffer from much of the same issues, yet our cultures and politics are quite different. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Obama wants us to be more like you. Well, that's not working for you either. We're not a socialist-leaning country. Right or wrong, we are who we are as a people with a strong belief system. Liberals make up 20% of the US, despite how loudly they speak.

Obama wants the US to be fairer, and any serious commentator from this side of the pond believes that the 8 years since Clinton were probably the most ruinous in your post war history. You see it differently, that is of course your right, but don't expect others to agree, because quite simply, the measures put in place by a Republican president, helped along by a scandalous casino culture in the financial sector, got you here. Obama has not been as successful as people had hoped in navigating your country out of the mess. But I reckon he would be a much better prospect than Romney for the future. But that's a mistake for your country to make. Again.

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Hail Santa...


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nothingface
VoivodFan
Member # 58

posted June 09, 2012 00:17     Profile for nothingface   Email nothingface     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
It's taken me a while to decide which way to continue our conversation. It is obvious (as it is in most discussions) that no one is going to make the other see things from their perspective.

That said, you guys can have Obama and all his socialism after November. That's not how our country was founded or intended. Furthermore, that's not how the majority of this country wish us to continue. Yes, there were the chants of hope and change 4 years ago, but those disillusioned people never bothered to ask, "Change into what?" Those same people are more frustrated than ever.

At most, Obama was a bust for the left's dream of utopian glee.

I'll check this thread again after we shitcan this clown in 5 months.


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KnickerZohnonnof
VoivodFan
Member # 272

posted November 07, 2012 02:53     Profile for KnickerZohnonnof   Email KnickerZohnonnof     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well you didn't shitcan Obama. Not by a long shot.

Americans didn't have the appetite for the alternative. And we over here applaud that. Mitt Romney would have been as dangerous as Bush, probably more so on the foreign policy front. And a tax cutting agenda, while sounding very nice on the surface, is financial suicide for a country that hasn't balanced the books for around a decade.

Your country got where it is because of a capitalist agenda, not a socialist one. While Obama has made mistakes you are paying for 8 years of utter profligacy by Bush, coupled with a fundamentally corrupt banking system causing the worst financial crisis in 80 years. Obama was never going to turn than ship around in one term. It is now he can make it count.

But there is the usual fly in the ointment of your electoral constitution. You have the usual gridlock in the senate and house of representatives, so he is effectively a lame duck president. Political ideology has overtaken pragmatic decision making, which is what is really killing your country. I'd like to think Obama can make the difference but I fear the way the cards are stacked in the corridors of power he will not achieve what he wants.

Ultimately, your constitution will be the downfall of your country, not your president.

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Hail Santa...


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nothingface
VoivodFan
Member # 58

posted November 07, 2012 21:23     Profile for nothingface   Email nothingface     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Our Constitution is why our country exists. You may know Europe, but you don't know the USA.

Obama didn't get sent packing because he's done well in getting as many dependent on the government as possible. We've shifted from a Do-It-Yourself country to a Do-It-For-Me country. Honestly, I don't know that we recover from this.

The crap about Obama turning the ship around is funny. Anyone who's been paying real attention knows that he's done the exact opposite. He has accelerated EVERY Bush-era tendency beyond comprehension. It is not his intention to fix us. It is his intention to "fix" us for good.

I respect your distant view of our country, but you really don't know what you're talking about.


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KnickerZohnonnof
VoivodFan
Member # 272

posted November 13, 2012 18:28     Profile for KnickerZohnonnof   Email KnickerZohnonnof     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
If I don't know what I'm talking about then the majority of political commentators don't either. Well, unless they are far right.

I will watch with interest over the next four years...

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Hail Santa...


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