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Author Topic: A Southerner's Response
Mezcalhead
VoivodFan
Member # 26

posted October 07, 2004 19:55     Profile for Mezcalhead   Email Mezcalhead     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
"T. Bubba Bechtol, part time City Councilman from Pensacola, Florida, was
asked on a local live radio talk show the other day just what he thought
of the allegations of torture of the Iraqi prisoners. His reply prompted
his ejection from the studio, but to thunderous applause from the
audience.

"If hooking up an Iraqi prisoner's scrotum to a car's battery cables will
save one American GI's life, then I have just two things to say:

"Red is positive", "Black is negative."


I'm sorry, bleeding hearts, but that is fucking funny. Good ol' boys UNITE!!!


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KnickerZohnonnof
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Member # 272

posted October 07, 2004 20:13     Profile for KnickerZohnonnof   Email KnickerZohnonnof     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That is totally priceless!

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Hail Santa...


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LyKcantropen
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Member # 162

posted October 08, 2004 02:30     Profile for LyKcantropen   Email LyKcantropen     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That is totally tasteless!


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Simon6
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Member # 187

posted October 08, 2004 05:04     Profile for Simon6   Email Simon6     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The US army just bombed a wedding celebration in Falluja. +/- 15 people killed.

Haha.

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What the...?


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Luna
VoivodFan
Member # 389

posted October 08, 2004 11:17     Profile for Luna   Email Luna     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Reminds me of the opening scene of The Evil that Men Do...disturbing and gross.
Oooohh, hold on....let me..er...pick up and wipe off my bleeding heart.....................................
Ok, I'm D-O-E-N, Done!

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What the fuck is wrong with drinking tea?


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X-D
VoivodFan
Member # 3

posted October 08, 2004 12:01     Profile for X-D   Email X-D     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Haha! I thought this was going to be Mez's official response to having a predominantly gay thread dedicated to him. Well, this is almost as funny! Southern charm indeed!

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I am a robot... bleep blop bloop


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Simon6
VoivodFan
Member # 187

posted October 13, 2004 03:17     Profile for Simon6   Email Simon6     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
You're damn right Warcorpse, the Swiss Army is a joke and sucks too ! It is of no use, except for doing business with weird people all around the world...

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What the...?


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LyKcantropen
VoivodFan
Member # 162

posted October 14, 2004 12:12     Profile for LyKcantropen   Email LyKcantropen     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
A well researched response, there, Warcorpse. I expect "Turkey=Evil" showed up on the old "Axis of Rhetoric" scanner, hmm? Has it occurred that not allowing Turkey to join the EU just alienates yet more Muslims, by projecting an image of the EU as solely a white Christian elitist club?

Turkey is reforming, but gradually. EU membership would help this process of reform. Now, more than ever, we need to invite predominantly Islamic nations to join the world community as a whole. It's better than, I don't know, starving them economically for a decade, or letting them rot and seethe, then invading them when we suddenly come to the realisation that they don't like the west very much.


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nunoPT
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Member # 379

posted October 14, 2004 14:05     Profile for nunoPT   Email nunoPT     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The following is allegedly the transcript of a radio conversation of a US naval ship with Canadian authorities off the coast of Newfoundland in October 1995, as released by the Chief of Naval Operations:

Canadians: Please divert your course 15 degrees the South to avoid a collision.

Americans: Recommend you divert your course 15 degrees the North to avoid a collision.

Canadians: Negative. You will have to divert your course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.

Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.

Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course.

Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET. WE ARE ACCOMPANIED BY THREE DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT VESSELS. I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR COURSE 15 DEGREES NORTH, I SAY AGAIN, THAT'S ONE FIVE DEGREES NORTH, OR COUNTER-MEASURES WILL BE UNDERTAKEN TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THIS SHIP.

Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call.


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LyKcantropen
VoivodFan
Member # 162

posted October 14, 2004 16:41     Profile for LyKcantropen   Email LyKcantropen     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
We did not invade anyone just because they were Islamic. Nor due to their hate of us.

Never said you invaded them *because* they were Islamic, but all the countries you've invaded are predominantly Islamic. Fundamental difference. As such, the Muslim world, by and large, is feeling more and more isolated. Muslims living in western countries are beginning to feel marginalised or suspected of wrongdoing primarily because of their faith or ethnic descent. In it's war on terror, consciously or not, the United States and it's media makes the connection "Islam = Terror". Which is why greater integration and better understanding is needed.

As for hate, you take too literal a stance on my point. Hate of the west breeds terrorism against the west. Terrorism, or perceived terrorist threats, have been the root cause of recent invasions.

On the subject of dictators, I think the west would find it's standpoint more morally defensible if they stopped helping dictators into power in the first place, or supporting, aiding or abetting them, or turning a blind eye. Oddly enough, Saddam comes under all three of those points.

As an aside, I apologise for misinterpreting your statement about Turkey. It was just in the same tone you use for little jokes, sorry.


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LyKcantropen
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Member # 162

posted October 15, 2004 14:01     Profile for LyKcantropen   Email LyKcantropen     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
While poverty may or may not be a root cause of terrorism, increasing the gap in wealth betwen first and third-world countries is not going to improve the situation any.

To have the USA seen to be taking actions to improve the lives of the most disadvantaged people on the planet, would at the least help to rally support to the USA's cause if it were attacked again. If the USA ACTUALLY was a great nation which spread opportunity, happiness, justice and aid around the globe, then far fewer people would be in the position of active hatred of what your country stands for. As it is, with the constant pillaging of resources by US multinationals, the enforced democratisation and US-backed depradations of the IMF and World Bank (not to mention "free trade" in the "free to exploit workers, paying them little, in poor working conditions, while taking their resources for ravenous American consumers" sense), is doing nothing but portraying your nation as nothing more than a massive Global Bully. Poverty might not cause terrorism, per se, but the USA's hand getting caught in the cookie jars of so many nations is not exactly helping you.

I do mostly agree with you on the subject of "revenge killing", but in places where injustices have been done, and "martyrs" made, those people who would recruit potential candidates for their cause do find a greater proportion of willing individuals than in a place where there's been little violence, naturally.

As for being attacked by a host of other people, I'd like to post a 9/11 thread, based on an article I read recently. Not a conspiracy theory, as such, but certainly one which raised some points and discrepancies in the official story of that tragedy. Frankly, I believe the whole threat of terrorism has been blown vastly out of proportion - there was no real need for the aggressive and repressive legislation or constant scaremongering. Indeed, I'd say the reason you haven't been attacked again is that there aren't nearly as many terrorists out there as your government and mine would like people to think.

9/11, to me, looks all too like the burning of the Reichstag. And, of course, after the Reichstag was burned down (supposedly) by that itinerant Dutchman, van der Lubbe, did a real and present Communist threat appear? No, but it set a precedent for a whole wave of repressive legislation. Hell, the legislation was called the "Decree for the Protection of People and State". Now, I know it's very droll to reference the National Socialist German Worker's Party in a point like this, but the cases, to my eyes at least, are similar enough to note.

Whoever mentions the Nazis first loses. So I lose.


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LyKcantropen
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Member # 162

posted October 18, 2004 13:57     Profile for LyKcantropen   Email LyKcantropen     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
The USA is the most generous and compassionate nation in the history of the world, if people cannot see that it's not my fault. We will always be held up to the standard of some non-existant utopian country.

No, but many Americans think America IS that utopian country. You are NOT the most generous, by a long shot. Many other countries give more and do more to aid developing countries. US-instituted policies and organisations dominate world trade and world politics, holding back progress in many third world countries. Far from being benevolent, the United States has used every opportunity it could grab to invade, cheat, steal and rob other countries and peoples. Genocide of the Native Americans? Hundreds of thousands dead in your own country, over the right to OWN SLAVES? Putting into place and propping up evil, sadistic dictators like Saddam Hussein, then turning on them when they decide they don't want to play ball? Then, of course, leaving him to stew and massacre some more of his people for ten years, before going on another moralising crusade against a problem the USA caused.

Then there's the greed. Endless consumption, stripping smaller nations of their resources then levying crippling economic conditions on them. Worship of the Almighty Dollar above all else - even human safety (Aspartame, anyone?). Increased willingness to guzzle the last reserves of fossil fuels, while endlessly taking this bullshit moralistic stance that somehow we should be grateful for this militaristic, greedy monster we created.

Freedom? You're not free. You live in a country which has a deep and regrettable culture of fear and loathing of the mystical "them". As recent events show, Americans are all too willing to give up those wonderful civil liberties to be told they're a bit safer, but there'll be hell to pay if you try to keep the Bible out of schools (what about other religious texts, I ask? Why are there seemingly no campaigns to get the Q'uran into schools, or teach kids the Eightfold Path?). You don't even live in a proper democracy.

The USA isn't the worst country. Far from it. It's very, very far from being the best - holding up ANY country as the "best" is a very simplistic, naive point of view, and frankly, reeks of the kind of intense nationalism that is pumped into American minds every day.

quote:
Can you imagine what the world would be like if the US lost the Cold War and the Soviets were the lone superpower?

Yes, and it would be a living nightmare. But, for many people, the current situation IS a living nightmare. Would it not be better to have no superpowers at all, or at the least, a benevolent superpower?

...man, this is looking like some sort of rant against America. Don't get me wrong, please, I'm not attacking the USA, rather, the myth that somehow it is the "greatest nation on Earth". There is no "greatest nation". If you can't see this, it's not my fault.


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KnickerZohnonnof
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Member # 272

posted October 18, 2004 18:01     Profile for KnickerZohnonnof   Email KnickerZohnonnof     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
One of the core reasons why the Russians became a 'superpower' had a lot to do with US propaganda portraying them as a warmongering race hell-bent on taking over the world. At the time (the 1950's), nothing could have been further from the truth. Eventually the nuclear secret was leaked to them and they created their arsenal, thus creating the threat.

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Hail Santa...


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LyKcantropen
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Member # 162

posted October 20, 2004 15:11     Profile for LyKcantropen   Email LyKcantropen     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Heh, don't get me started on the British Empire.

My opinions are emotional rhetoric, and yours are...?

Yeah, I went a bit off the rails, but it's something I feel strongly about. And I still disagree, no matter how you phrase it, that the USA has "done more" etc. If anything, it's always been just as bad, but with a far better PR machine.

Anyway, peace. I'll probably leave this area alone for a while. Until after the elections, at least.


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Simon6
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Member # 187

posted October 23, 2004 20:12     Profile for Simon6   Email Simon6     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I just think like Dr. Bowman. Really like that guy.

Corpsie, you think he's a "vile leftist" too ?

"Some Dare Call It Treason: Wake Up America!
by Dr. Robert Bowman, USAF Ret.

April 27, 2004

I am a member of Veterans For Peace, an organization of thousands of combat veterans. All of us have put our life on the line for this country.

Most of us opposed the recent invasion of Iraq.

We also opposed the first Gulf War, and the sanctions that followed. We opposed the slaughter of fleeing Iraqis on the Road to Basra. We opposed the use of Depleted Uranium munitions. And we opposed the lies upon which the first Gulf War was based.

But there was one good thing about that first Gulf War. It ended. And without a wholesale invasion of Iraq. Why?

Here's what the first President Bush wrote about that in his memoirs:

"Trying to eliminate Saddam would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible. We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq.

There was no viable exit strategy we could see, violating another of our principles. Furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-Cold War world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression that we hoped to establish.

Had we gone the invasion route, the United States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land."

My brothers and sisters, it is just too darn bad his son can't read!

I've been severely criticized for speaking out in opposition to this war. So have you, probably.

We're told that we're aiding and abetting the enemy.

We're told that we should support the president no matter what.

We're told that patriotism demands that we support the war. They say that we're abusing the freedoms that our troops are in the Middle East defending.

They say we should be ashamed to be protesting while the troops are in the desert protecting our right to do so.

Well I say, Hogwash!


I feel an affinity for the troops over there in Iraq.

They are my comrades in arms. I admire their sense of honor and sacrifice. I understand why some of them believe they should be there. They have neither the experience nor the wisdom to see past the lies they have been told.

The truth is, they are not over there protecting our freedoms. Our freedoms are not under attack from Saddam Hussein or the remnants of his Baathist party.

Our freedoms are under attack by John Ashcroft. They are threatened by John Poindexter. They are trampled by Donald Rumsfeld. They are disdained by Dick Cheney. And they are not even understood by George W. Bush.

The battle to preserve our freedoms is not taking place in Baghdad and Tikrit.

It is taking place in Central Park in New York City, in Lafayette Park in Washington DC, in Ghirardelli Park in San Francisco, and in River Front Park in Melbourne, Florida. The front lines go right down US 1 and up New Haven Avenue.

It is we, here at home, who are the foot soldiers battling to preserve our cherished freedoms by exercising them, in spite of opposition and ridicule.


It is we who protect our civil rights through speaking out. We are the Minutemen sounding the alarm against tyranny.

We are upholding the spirit of the American Revolution. We are preserving the freedoms that the troops in the desert have a right to come back to.


The troops getting shot at in Iraq are not protecting us. We are protecting them, and their honor and their freedoms.

We have just completed a forced march through hostile territory to defend their freedoms and ours, and the ideals America was founded on.

We are protecting this nation by speaking truth to power. Let us do it loudly and fearlessly and courageously and joyfully, for we are the true patriots!


Here is the truth that we proclaim.

This war has nothing to do with national security or freedom or democracy or human rights or protecting our allies or weapons of mass destruction or defeating terrorism or disarming Iraq.

It has to do with money. It has to do with oil. And it has to do with raw imperial power.

It is based on a pack of lies. And it is wrong. Those who forced this war on an unwilling world are guilty of flagrantly violating the US Constitution, the UN Charter, and international law. What they have done is illegal, immoral, unconstitutional and TREASON.

It's been said that somewhere in Texas there is a village looking for their idiot. Now that may be funny, but it misses the point. George W. Bush is not an imbecile. He is a TRAITOR.

Before this war started, we knew it would fracture NATO, split the United Nations, separate us from our allies, and destroy the great nation we inherited from our fathers who died in World War II. And it has.

We knew it would make our beloved country feared and hated, an outcast from the world community, a pariah among the peoples, and the number one rogue nation on earth. And it has.

It has done so based on a pack of lies. My sisters and brothers, that is not stupidity. That is TREASON.

We knew this sadistic corporate war would incense the Arab world, provide thousands of new Osama bin Ladens, and enormously increase the terrorist threat. And it has.

We knew it would further endanger the American people and destroy our national security. And it has.

That is not stupidity, it is TREASON.

The cabal of neoconservatives at the Project For a New American Century who planned this war (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Libby, Perle, Jeb Bush) even before W became president, knew the American people would not stand for it unless there was a new Pearl Harbor.

9/11 supplied that. Our government was warned.

They were warned by the Clinton Administration. They were warned by 11 other countries. And they were specifically warned by an FBI agent that one of them was planning on flying a hijacked airliner into the World Trade Center.

They not only ignored the warnings, they made sure no fighter jets were scrambled to stop it.

If they had just done nothing, and allowed normal procedures to be followed, the Twin Towers would still be standing and thousands of dead Americans would still be alive.

This is not stupidity, it is TREASON.

As a combat veteran, I will not stand idly by and watch our security destroyed by a president who went AWOL rather than fight in Vietnam.

Honor requires that I call this by its right name. It is TREASON.

As one who has devoted his life to the security of this country, I will not stand by and watch an appointed president send our sons and daughters around the world to kill Arabs for the oil companies without calling it by its right name.

It is TREASON.

I joined the Air Force to protect our borders and our people, not the financial interests of Folgers, Chiquita Banana, and Exxon.

We've had enough corporate wars.

No more Iraqs. No more El Salvadors. No more Kosovos.


No more Colombias. These are not isolated incidents of stupidity. They are part of a long, bloody history of foreign policy being conducted for the financial benefit of the wealthy few. It is a new colonialism.

It violates our Constitution. It endangers our people. And it is TREASON.

As a pilot who flew 101 combat missions in Vietnam, I can tell you that the best thing our government can do for its combat veterans is to quit making more of them.

Peace is patriotic; a preemptive war is immoral, illegal, unconstitutional, a war crime, and TREASON.

I swore to uphold the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic.

That includes a renegade president. Wake up, America!

It is time for George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and the whole oil mafia to be removed from office and indicted for TREASON.

We are the people. We are sovereign. We are the patriots. The whole world is with us. Never allow anyone to intimidate you into silence.

Wake up, America! It's time to speak truth to power.

God bless America, and God save us from the traitors in our government."


Dr. Robert Bowman was a colonel in the US Air Force and was Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under President Jimmy Carter. He is Presiding Archbishop, United Catholic Church. He has been president of the Institute for Space and Security Studies since 1982. Before that he was vice-president of Space Communications Company; manager, Advanced Space Programs for General Dynamics; and director, Advanced Space Programs Development for the Department of Defense, directing the "Star Wars" programs. He is also a progressive populist candidate for President of the United States. He may be reached via email at: isss@rmbowman.com. See also his web site: http://www.rmbowman.com.

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What the...?


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Mezcalhead
VoivodFan
Member # 26

posted October 24, 2004 21:53     Profile for Mezcalhead   Email Mezcalhead     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lycanthropy:
Heh, don't get me started on the British Empire.

My opinions are emotional rhetoric, and yours are...?

Yeah, I went a bit off the rails, but it's something I feel strongly about. And I still disagree, no matter how you phrase it, that the USA has "done more" etc. If anything, it's always been just as bad, but with a far better PR machine.

Anyway, peace. I'll probably leave this area alone for a while. Until after the elections, at least.


Future career options Lync???? Diplomat at the UN? I can see it.
Hahaha....more countries out there playing cricket....that was a beauty corpse!


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LyKcantropen
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Member # 162

posted October 25, 2004 07:10     Profile for LyKcantropen   Email LyKcantropen     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
UN Diplomat? Hardly. That's a thankless task if ever I saw one.
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Simon6
VoivodFan
Member # 187

posted October 26, 2004 01:16     Profile for Simon6   Email Simon6     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks. I take it as a compliment.

Warcorpse, I suggest you to take one more ride on www.fearbush.com to learn more about some other perspectives and common sense.

Good luck !

www.fearbush.com

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What the...?


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Simon6
VoivodFan
Member # 187

posted October 26, 2004 08:57     Profile for Simon6   Email Simon6     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Umh...talking in categories, I'd consider myself as a leftist too (although it's just a matter of logic and reason to me and I don't care about left or right), but I'm one of those exceptions that is not really into dead babies, you know.
I think there are other debates also on www.fearbush.com, without the babies. Just serious text.

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What the...?


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nia
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Member # 9

posted November 10, 2004 12:41     Profile for nia   Email nia     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
http://fuckthesouth.com/
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Luna
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Member # 389

posted November 10, 2004 13:51     Profile for Luna   Email Luna     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Whew! That's some funny fucking shit. Damn! All that fucking bitch-ass cussing is getting me riled-the-fuck-up.

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What the fuck is wrong with drinking tea?


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KnickerZohnonnof
VoivodFan
Member # 272

posted November 10, 2004 17:00     Profile for KnickerZohnonnof   Email KnickerZohnonnof     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by xXniaXx:
http://fuckthesouth.com/

Umm...he's pretty pissed off I'd say

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Hail Santa...


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Mezcalhead
VoivodFan
Member # 26

posted November 11, 2004 15:05     Profile for Mezcalhead   Email Mezcalhead     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That was the biggest load of crap I've read in quite some time. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe many of our Founding Fathers were from Virginia. Where did you find this wonderful little piece Nia? It looks like something written by a 12th grader for his english class.
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LyKcantropen
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Member # 162

posted November 11, 2004 16:15     Profile for LyKcantropen   Email LyKcantropen     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I thought it was as funny as hell. It's mostly tongue in cheek, y'know, not actually serious.

As an aside, Mezzy, are there any filthy reactionary pig-dog... erm, conservative writers you could recommend me? What sort of things do you like to read on this subject, if any? I'm not completely closed minded, I'd love to get a better impression of what makes the American right tick than that given by the average lefty journo.


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Mezcalhead
VoivodFan
Member # 26

posted November 11, 2004 23:00     Profile for Mezcalhead   Email Mezcalhead     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Okay, yes, you're right, reading it again...tongue in cheek...but IMO childish, high school level humor. But you'll probably say, damn, ol' Mez is just offended..can't laugh at his own "peoples". No sir, getting offended is bleeding heart territory.

What? You have never heard of the esteemed Mr. Buckley?

NR

My favorite is the Brit on there...John Derbyshire. But they're all pretty good.

And remember lync, "average lefty" is an unnecessary adjective for a journalist......just say journalist..we already know where they stand. politically. Boy, I'll be happy when you get over that misconception.


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