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Topic: Angel Rat.. what would you do
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JUDGE FARGO
VoivodFan
Member # 250
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posted August 19, 2006 15:59
    
quote:
Originally posted by zCthonz:
have you ever listened to the demos from this album?weve got them here:
http://www.voivodfan.com/media/index.php?q=f&f=%2F_Angel_Rat_Demos might be a refreshing listen, haha. 
I've heard the demos before, they sound muddy & lack clarity like most early demos do, just no keyboards. The album sounds better, as a pro recording should -guitar sounds great to me.
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Juan87
VoivodFan
Member # 87
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posted August 19, 2006 23:42
quote:
Originally posted by schroeder:
I liked Angel Rat from the very first spin and still love it; however, after reading many years ago it led to Blacky departing the band I would have to say I would go back in time and change history and bring peace to the original band and tell the record company executives to butt the fuck out an let the band create the record without pressure of making a commercialized album. Not that I think the songs are commercial whatsoever, but I think Terry tried to make it more radio friendly instead of heavy. He just wasn't the right guy for the job.
You bring so much thought into everything Dave, I admire that. Speak yer mind, it's there for a reason! VV were under HUGE pressures during this process, and I am damn sure it created volatile environment(s). We cannot judge though, what happened happened, and that is it. OH yeah I love Angel Rat, I didn't buy it till 95 but I cherish it like any other Voivod recording. Korgullized till I die  -------------------- 
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KnickerZohnonnof
VoivodFan
Member # 272
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posted August 20, 2006 06:19
I bought it the day it came out and was so disappointed. It was clear that pressure had been brought to bear to make the band more radio friendly and my personal opinion is that the album is one of their weakest. Mind you that's by VoiVod standards so bear that comment in mind! I gave it a spin when I saw this thread and my opinion hasn't changed. I'd file it under 'for the completist'.Sound wise it's just too commercial, almost REM like. How to improve? Just give the bass and drums more depth and allow the instruments generally to breathe a bit to inject some atmosphere. They sound so compressed and claustrophobic it's almost like it was recorded in a tin. -------------------- Hail Santa...
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JUDGE FARGO
VoivodFan
Member # 250
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posted August 20, 2006 06:38
quote:
Originally posted by KnickerZohnonnof:
I bought it the day it came out and was so disappointed. It was clear that pressure had been brought to bear to make the band more radio friendly and my personal opinion is that the album is one of their weakest. Mind you that's by VoiVod standards so bear that comment in mind! I gave it a spin when I saw this thread and my opinion hasn't changed. I'd file it under 'for the completist'.Sound wise it's just too commercial, almost REM like. How to improve? Just give the bass and drums more depth and allow the instruments generally to breathe a bit to inject some atmosphere. They sound so compressed and claustrophobic it's almost like it was recorded in a tin.
I see nothing wrong with a commercial sound, adding depth/removing compression I don't think would change the fact that the songs themselves are commercial or poppy by nature anyway. Listen to snakes vocals, so many pretty melodies, that is how they wrote the album, pop melodies based around Piggy's unique guitar work. It sounds like an Indie pop album in some areas and for me the fact that an obscure metal band could do that and do it successfully is great.
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K
VoivodFan
Member # 6
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posted August 20, 2006 07:44
"Mr. White Hair" (as Blacky calls him)...Terry Brown...is one of the best Producers on the planet.
How is it that Rush sound so brilliant over the years, yet many here think he mucked-up Angel Rat?I know Rush and Voivod are completely different bands but the concepts for the capturing of each instrument remain the same.
For Mr. Brown's technique anyway. I dont think that Terry was under such pressure to make Voivod more "Radio-friendly" as we think.
I believe it to be a case of him just doing what he thought was best.
This, of course, conflicting with what Blacky had in mind for the bottom sound.
Terry should have listened to what Blacky was suggesting. Seems to me that there was a personal chemistry conflict with Terry that ended up effecting the relationship of the whole band.
Blacky probably knew they were being used by MCA and could no longer tollerate it.
A clear example of all the bands who were used and then thrown out...is reflected in anyone who had to wear a Pirate Shirt in a Video durring that time period. lol! Blacky was so right in many ways...as Voivod have never been the same much since then. Angel Rat sounds just fine to me the way it is.
I will always highly respect Terry Brown.
I also highly respect Blacky.
Its sad to me that the chemistry between the two didnt work out.
If Terry would have listened to Blacky like he listened to Geddy Lee (Rush) for so many years...the final mix would be better, although i love it the way it is. Its all just my humble opinion though.
Not trying to speak for Blacky and anyone can correct me where i am wrong. Cheers to Angel Rat and the great music on it!
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jf
VoivodFan
Member # 645
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posted August 20, 2006 10:54
quote:
Angel Rat.. what would you do ?
Listen to it again and again -------------------- (11) Le texte original dit quatorze, mais maintes raisons invitent ŕ supposer que, dans la bouche d'Astérion, ce nombre représente l'infini.
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nothingface
VoivodFan
Member # 58
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posted August 20, 2006 21:17
Since the issue of the relationships between the band, producer, and record label has arisen, I feel I should speak on it. We recently worked with a "known" producer. It didn't go exactly the way we wanted it to either. Since then, I've learned a alot.In Terry Brown's case, he may very well be "one of the best producers on the planet", but not for Voivod's sound. A producer should be able to capture the true sound of the band while maximizing the potential for the record. With that said, my experience has been that established producers also seem to be set in the ways that they do things, regardless of which artist they are working with. In our case, our more "radio-ish" songs came out great, while our heavier music suffered at his hands. Our producer was so set on doing things his way that he fought us over things, daily. I realized at that monent what Blacky had to deal with. We were paying this guy and he wouldn't even listen to our suggestions or desires for our songs. It's not supposed to be that way. The approach to "capturing each instrument" can be the same from artist to artist, but it's how you handle it once you've got it that counts. I love Angel Rat in every way, but the band should have had more input. Is it the producer's job to turn out his personal best at the expense of the artist's personnel? Well, our producer thought so too. Ultimately, the band's name is on the cover and band will take the credit or the heat for what's in the wax. Whether you are a band or a label, you pay the producer to get the best out of the material and the band's performance of it. The band and/or label should have final say over what gets mastered. As for Voivod, I was a bit surprised at the direction the songwriting took on Angel Rat, which has nothing to do with production. It's one my favorite Voivod records. I just wish they hadn't splintered during the process. Sometimes, I still get the feeling there may have been issues brewing before Angel Rat.
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Nuclear Vampire
VoivodFan
Member # 20
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posted August 21, 2006 01:15
I think AR is an amazing record. Personally, I think it sounds fantastic. About the pressure the guys were under, the tensions, and Blacky leaving, I don't feel it's my place to comment on that. That's between the members of the band and nobody else. Well, maybe Terry Brown, their manager at the time...  Seriously, I wasn't there, most everyone here wasn't there, so I just don't think it's proper to "open old wounds" so to speak. After all, I'm pretty sure all the current and former members of the band pop in here to read on occasion. I'm sure even Piggy materializes here in cyberspace to check up on things now and then. I do think it's cool to postulate the "what ifs" regarding an albums recording, gear used, mixes, etc. I remember a really intersting thread a couple of years ago on the braveboard (I think) where the topic was "What if Venom had a huge budget and a nice studio to record Welcome To Hell?" (I'm paraphrasing of course). Some neat ideas came up. The main "beef" about the production is that it's not as "heavy" as it could have been. AR may not sound as "heavy" as Nothingface or Dimension Hatross, but a few things would have to have been done differently to make it "heavier".
The drums sound great, and there's absolutely no need to change that, imo. Same with Snake's vocals. His best singing ever, bar none. Then we come to the points everyone seems to hover around - bass and guitar.
More distortion and bottom end on the bass sounds great in theory, but I don't think it wouldn't have mixed right with the guitar tone Piggy has on the album. It would just plain sound odd. Piggy's tone on AR is nowhere near as harsh and, well, Metal as on previous releases. His tone is very lush and full. Rush and Fates Warning guitar tones come to mind, of couse. I'd love to know what gear he was recording with on those sessions. I agree it would be cool to hear it with full out Marshall stacks, overdriven to hell and the blower bass raging as well, but AR is the way it is and there nothing anyone can do about it, save for re-recording it. With the guitar and bass sounds of Nothingface mixed with AR's drums and vocals...holy fuck that would have been a monster! Again, I love AR. It's a unique part of the Voivod legacy, just like every album is. Each one has it's own sound, it's own flavour, and that's one of the great things about them. What I'd like to know is: Rrroooaaarrr! - what would you do?
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Trollz
VoivodFan
Member # 393
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posted August 21, 2006 07:44
quote:
Originally posted by Nuclear Vampire:
I think AR is an amazing record. Personally, I think it sounds fantastic. About the pressure the guys were under, the tensions, and Blacky leaving, I don't feel it's my place to comment on that. That's between the members of the band and nobody else. Well, maybe Terry Brown, their manager at the time... Seriously, I wasn't there, most everyone here wasn't there, so I just don't think it's proper to "open old wounds" so to speak. After all, I'm pretty sure all the current and former members of the band pop in here to read on occasion. I'm sure even Piggy materializes here in cyberspace to check up on things now and then.
i'll second that statement! i love AngelRat as it is. 
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posted August 19, 2006 05:23
good answer 
posted August 21, 2006 10:45
