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Author Topic: How the rest of the world views the United States
Mezcalhead
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Member # 26

posted June 21, 2003 00:54     Profile for Mezcalhead   Email Mezcalhead     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I think Sharpton's got my vote in 04. Now there will be a positive shcnage.
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Gorf
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Member # 119

posted June 21, 2003 11:53     Profile for Gorf   Email Gorf     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well, I suppose I could throw in an Eric Fromm lecture about the plight of the individual alienated from mass-consumerism society, but.....

We are a commodity. The movies don't even attempt the slightest cultivation or message anymore its all special effects and nonsense.
The media is only concerned in saving McDonalds image so it doesn't Chapter 11 like it deserves.

We are exploited to the hilt- instead of prices going down like when demand is low, that Satan Alan Greenspan keeps prices artificially high so everything you do need or want is top -dollar.

Every job is like you are doing three jobs for the same money (or less).

Zillions more TV and internet channels with less anaysis, content, and information with short attention span items. Dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.

Like that Apollyon Sun song from "Sub"

"Go get your feeding frenzy under control" -Tom Warrior


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LyKcantropen
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Member # 162

posted June 21, 2003 12:40     Profile for LyKcantropen   Email LyKcantropen     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey, I'm 16 for christ's sake. You can't *seriously* expect a balanced, well-thought-out argument, can you?
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Gorf
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Member # 119

posted June 21, 2003 12:40     Profile for Gorf   Email Gorf     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

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KnickerZohnonnof
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Member # 272

posted June 21, 2003 12:51     Profile for KnickerZohnonnof   Email KnickerZohnonnof     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by El Indio:
It looks like this debate is turning into yet another one of them polarized ones whereas you have a huge group standing on each side of the fence and very little chance of a mutually acceptable resolution happening. We are talking about such conflicts as abortion, euthanasia, drug use, et al here. Also some of you people have touched on that so called "guilt by association" controversy which is a curse that has dogged mankind since our ancestors were first learning how to skin water buffalo. It really bothers me to see people talk about ALL americans or ALL iraqis or ALL fans of the Vancouver Canucks as being basically evil.

Most debates like this one will by their very nature polarise opinion. Derogatory things will be said about the people of the USA and generalisations will be drawn because of the perception that most of the US popluace backs Bush on his current policy platform. It does seem strange to me that a guy who couldn't even remember the names of foreign leaders and whose intellectual credibilty is at the very least questionable could end up as the President of the most powerful nation on the planet. People outside of the US and within it have made negative comments about Americans because of this and will continue to do so. I would venture to suggest that the US constitution is the problem here and maybe it needs to be revised and brought kicking and screaming into the present day. The trouble is that the biggest players in the US are served well by the status quo and any legislation that sought to reduce their influence would be buried and not given any chance of becoming reality. Maybe the US needs a war with itself instead of deciding that others are to blame for the current World situation.


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Gorf
VoivodFan
Member # 119

posted June 21, 2003 13:02     Profile for Gorf   Email Gorf     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Axis of Jusice Radio w/ Tom Morello and Serj
............................................
took on Nike last night. They discussed the squallid conditions of 130,000 people who made shoes in Indonesia. They apparently live 9x9 foot, dirt floor windowless houses, and child laborers.

I've worn Nikes all my life. I 've heard all these stories before. The thing is, as relevant a story as it may be, we'd probably walk around naked if we boycotted every product that made by expoited labor. Nearly every shred of clothes from Target or K-mart is made in Taiwan or China probably with prison labor or slave wages. Every pair of Levi's is probably made that way too.


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KnickerZohnonnof
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Member # 272

posted June 21, 2003 13:20     Profile for KnickerZohnonnof   Email KnickerZohnonnof     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Gorf there are two reasons for this:

1. Westerners seem to want everything as cheaply as is feasibly possible.

2. Companies wishing to keep their profit margins will source work to places like China, where there is no legislation to protect the workers, or any form of minimum wage.

What you have to remember also is that, in spite of the fact that many of us, myself included, find these conditions totally repugnant, for the people working there it's actually a step up. It's either that or eke out a peasant life in some field where nothing at all is guaranteed and you live on the verge of starvation and disease is rampant. Catch 22, and the companies who set up there know they will have queues of people begging to work for them. Add to that the fact that shipping costs are minimal due to the fact it isn't taxed to any extent, and you have the reason why they do it. And look at the environmental implications of it. If we taxed shipping like the UK government taxes the car it wouldn't be possible for this to happen. But no government has the backbone to do this because again they are in the pocket of the very people it would affect. Another catch 22, and these companies know it!

What is the answer? Prioritise sustainablility and environmental considerations over the need to make money at any expense. Will it happen? Yes, when it's too late and the planet's natural balance is irreparably destroyed. Only then will we realise we can't eat money.


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Mezcalhead
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Member # 26

posted June 21, 2003 13:24     Profile for Mezcalhead   Email Mezcalhead     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
My question is this: What were these poor wretches doing prior to toiling in Nike's sweatshops?
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