this is a love/hate relationship and thats the closest way i can explain it.

No i aint a ugly american you can just think of us as...

When you say 'typical American', I actually do take offense. As for the self-loathing Americans on the board, I think back to an old Simpsons episode where Homer is watching the Def Comedy Jam and a black comic is talking about how "black folks drive all cool-like and white folks drive *like this* (putting an uptight affect in his voice)" and Homer laughs his ass off, saying "It's true! We're so LAME!"

Do yourself a favor and please don't equate the actions of a government - whether good or bad - with the people it governs. And for crying out loud - don't assume that I have a Big Mac in one hand and the remote in the other switching between King of Queens and American Idol for my daily does of 'culture'.

You are proving the point very well.

Americans think theyre shit dont stink.

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Originally posted by LivingEvil:
It's interesting how all Americans get lumped together for stuff a few stupid american politicians or some corporate asshole do,even though most americans hate what the politicians and corporate assholes are doing to this and other countries and there's not a whole lot we can do about it.

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I guess i gotta say it again...

Dumbasses voting for Dumbasses who make Dumbass decisions.
Its the American way!

A good start would be to kick some arses over at the Democratic party. Or, 'The Mini-Republican party' as they should be known.

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Originally posted by Noitall:
I personally do not hold Americans responsible for their government's actions but millions of people worldwide do. One only needs to look to the Middle East to see examples of this sentiment.

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But why should that be MY (or any other American citizen not connected with policy decisions) problem? Those millions of people who you say would hold me responsible for the actions of my government can fuck themselves. Seriously. And if they feel they're justified to hate me (or worse)
to vent their frustrations or deem it justifiable (Jihad), then, again, they can fuck themselves. Should I apologize to the world for being American? Should I nod my head pensively and consider why I am deserving of hatred due to my ethnicity? I'm certainly not what you'd consider a "flag wavin', don't tread on me, Toby Keith-listenin'" guy (which is a stereotype - touche!), but I do appreciate the liberties that are afforded to me simply because I was born here. I'm not foolish enough to believe that US foreign policy doesn't piss off a considerable number of the peoples of the world, though. I'm just not going to be an apologist for something I don't contribute to.

Another point I wanted to raise to X-D, and no disrespect is intended: which freedoms of yours have you lost due to the Patriot Act? Name one thing you've done all your life that you can't do today? What daily (or even occasional) activity of yours do you foresee losing, realistically? Again, not trying to be disrespectful, just wanted to follow-up on your previous post.

Not XD.

Of course, you don't see the people this affects. They're all locked up in Guantanamo. But the most important thing is to see what it potentially paves the way for. And with Ashcroft in charge of justice/law? Congratulations, one more big terrorist attack and you're all fucked.

Oh, and I'm British and hating it.

My main point being that the Democrats are no better.

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Originally posted by Kane:
And, Nia, I know you weren't saying that you hate Americans or anything. Just for the record. And re: being an apologist - if you don't make me apologize for Reagan's ignorance of the AIDS epidemic, I won't make you apologize for Celine Dion.

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My main gripe with the US government and USA in general is that it has the highest resource use per head of population of any nation on the planet and almost seems to be proud of it. It emits over a quarter of all greenhouse gas emissions. It seems to view sustainability like it's for wierdos and decides instead to seek to plunder beautiful, undisturbed wildlife such as Alaska in it's relentless search for the energy to feed this machine. Not that other countries are beyond reproach on this one. It's just that the US appears to be easily the worst offender in my opinion and wants others to change their ways before it does anything about its own. Look at the Kyoto treaty; OK, Clinton signed up to something he had very little hope of implementing, but Bush simply tore the thing up, saying that third world countries did more harm and that, because of the forests in the US act as a 'carbon sink', they should be exempt from any climate protocols. How did he come to that conclusion?! Big business doesn't want a climate protocol in the US because it means they will have to put money back into the environment they are so happily raping for their profits. Again, most western economies aren't exempt from this criticism, it's just the US is again the worst offender.

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Originally posted by Knickerzohnonnof:
My main gripe with the US government and USA in general is that it has the highest resource use per head of population of any nation on the planet and almost seems to be proud of it. It emits over a quarter of all greenhouse gas emissions. It seems to view sustainability like it's for wierdos and decides instead to seek to plunder beautiful, undisturbed wildlife such as Alaska in it's relentless search for the energy to feed this machine.

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Hey, good to hear about sustainable development. I used to work as a research agent in sustainable development, and we used to be quite stuned by the destructive effects of the politics of the US. We collected articles about that, but we stopped: there were to much of them!

Anyway, there are ways of making profits without destroying the earth; you can actually save money by saving the environment, because pollution is directly linked with energy consumption. And the number one energy source is oil. So there you have it in oil: pollution, exploitation and wars.

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Originally posted by Kane:
Another point I wanted to raise to X-D, and no disrespect is intended: which freedoms of yours have you lost due to the Patriot Act? Name one thing you've done all your life that you can't do today? What daily (or even occasional) activity of yours do you foresee losing, realistically? Again, not trying to be disrespectful, just wanted to follow-up on your previous post.

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Hey Kane,
First of all, I do not consider myself a self-loathing American. In fact, despite my many disagreements with our govt's policies and a general lack of faith in many of my fellow citizens, I very much do appreciate the positive aspects and freedoms that I am able to take for granted because of my living here.

At no time in my earlier post did I mention the Patriot Act. My comments were about my fellow citizens, many of whom I beleive would willingly hand over an unacceptable amount of their freedoms in turn for a 'safer', more police-state type of atmosphere in the name of 'security'. Attitudes like "if you aren't doing anything wrong, than you have nothing fear", do not sit well with me and sound not unlike something you would have heard in the Soviet Union some 20 years ago.

I also believe that big-money corprate interests are possibly a larger threat to our freedoms than our government, which is supposed to be protecting us from such a thing, but instead is enabling it. First on the chopping block is our right to privacy!

Hmmm.... you raise good points Kane and ya got me thinking man. But, like I said, it is often my fellow Americans that scare me more than the current administration. I do not have an avid interest in politics and therefore am (for the most part), not commenting on govt policies and practices. I do however, keenly observe the attitudes and behaviors of my friends, neighbors, and general population as I see it. All I'm stating is my opinions, based on those observations... nothing more.

"The fact that Bush is keen on war has little or nothing to do with his psyche, but a great deal with the American economic system. This system -- America’s brand of capitalism -- functions first and foremost to make extremely rich Americans like the Bush "money dynasty" even richer. Without warm or cold wars, however, this system can no longer produce the expected result in the form of the ever-higher profits the moneyed and powerful of America consider as their birthright."

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Originally posted by King Kula:
Yeah...Keep talking, Hatross.

You are proving the point very well.

Americans think theyre shit dont stink.

Dominate him, Nia! lol!

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Now thems fightin words..